Topic: Liquid Light / Emulsion Processes Within The Interior Of Bottle ?

[georgeingraham]

Hi al...

I am not a photographer, but hope someone here can help myself and collector friends with learning if either a process such as this Liquid Emulsion or some other process is being used to create what we collectors of these "Inside Painted Chinese Snuff Bottles" consider fakes within the market.

We know that this particular bottles image as an example ( which is on the inside of bottle ) was placed there by some means of photography, and are trying to understand how this process is being accomplished.
 
I hope it is ok to post this link to another forum which describes our delima in great detail.. Maybe someone here would be willing to read through and look at the series of images to better understand and possibly help ?

Collectors within our group vary from the most novice to experts. Since this process seems fairly new, we are doing our best to figure out the process, and just who is at the core of creating these, and expose the bottles as fakes.
 
They are coming from China, so not only finding such a shop, but getting access to seeing the process is impossible.
 
Below is one blown up portion of one image within a bottle. They have photo enhanced "a color" image to the inside of the bottle and then are painting some areas by hand to help bring out the fading of some areas resulting from the process. In this case the hair..

Thanks for listening. Any help would be greatly appreciated !

[Francois]

Well, liquid emulsion for one works only in black & white.
It would be possible to put the emulsion inside the bottle, put a negative on the front, expose and develop. That simple.

Color needs a much more complicated process that counterfeit wouldn't go that far since specialized expensive equipment would be necessary. Even the Black and White only process is very unlikely to have been used since it is quite expensive.

But since liquid emulsion is transparent in nature, it would be possible to add some color using a brush... but that would be as a back layer.

The easiest way to know for sure, if the image is inside the bottle and how it was put there would be to use a borescope.

If it is a fake, the bootleggers would probably use an inkjet printer to lay an image on thin tissue paper and then glue it to the inside using some kind of mod podge like material (or even a varnish)... That would make the paper practically invisible.

Anyways... that's my two cents worth.

[georgeingraham]

Hello Francois.. Thank you for the reply.

One of the guys decided to use a long pin to see if something could actually be peeled. I am going to copy and paste his discovery below..

Seems like your comment about the possible printing of an image on some kind of super thin paper followed by a coating matches what he has discovered.

It sure seems like it would be one heck of a ballancing act and even sheer luck to be able and place and hold such an image in place while coating it with something. Starting to look like this is exactly what they did though..

Since apparently the entire interior of the bottle is coated, seems like they might have positioned the image, then sprayed ( somehow ) the whole enterior.

Any hooo... Thank you for the reply..

I was really betting on some kind of chemical and fancy light combination.. Looks like that is not the case ..

Below is what my friend has discoverd..

"The entire inside of the bottle is coated with some kind of plastic film, which is what gives the bottle the yellowish color below the neck

The coating becomes thicker near the girl's picture, and I have actually carved off loose flaps which are now hanging loosely inside the  bottle  above the girl's head.

The girl's image film seems to have been stuck down first ( using the black base and balck hair hand painting to cover up something)

Then another  layer  of  ( poly-urothene ? )  was  sprayed on to uniform the whole inside bottle surface."

[Pete_R]

I'd better go and check my wife's collection. And I'll be taking a magnifier with us when we go to China in September to check all the others she's bound to want to buy.

Good information.

[georgeingraham]

I'd better go and check my wife's collection. And I'll be taking a magnifier with us when we go to China in September to check all the others she's bound to want to buy.

Good information.

So true..

Although if you follow the discussion within our forum, we are pretty sure of at least one obvious tell tail sign to these particular bottles.

Say, if your wife enjoys sharing and learning about Chinese snuff bottles with other collectors ? Would love to have her join up to the forum via the link in my original post.

[Francois]

The girl's image film seems to have been stuck down first ( using the black base and balck hair hand painting to cover up something)

Then another  layer  of  ( poly-urothene ? )  was  sprayed on to uniform the whole inside bottle surface."

Actually, the plastic varnish was probably just poured in, swooshed around and emptied. The lumpy part on the bottom could come from the sedimentation of the varnish. The painted hair is probably just acrylic paint which was used to stick down the image before pouring.

[georgeingraham]

The girl's image film seems to have been stuck down first ( using the black base and balck hair hand painting to cover up something)

Then another  layer  of  ( poly-urothene ? )  was  sprayed on to uniform the whole inside bottle surface."

 The painted hair is probably just acrylic paint which was used to stick down the image before pouring.

Now thats a thought !