Author Topic: Polaroid 195 focus problem (Read 16266 times)

fbf · « **on:** December 29, 2010, 08:34:19 PM »

Hi all, I am new here. I recently found a 195 land camera in decent condition. I tested it with fuji fp100b. Everything seems working fine except the focus is bit off on all the images, particularly in closeup distance. Is there anyway to adjust the focus? or am I using the camera wrong (yes, i did read the manual and I do have other polaroid cameras too)?

Thank you

gregor · « **Reply #1 on:** December 29, 2010, 08:47:08 PM »

My hunch is it's the viewfinder that needs adjustment but 1st you need to determine if the viewfinder is off or if the lens needs to be calibrated. Shoot some film lining up the feet markers on the bellows strut. If it's accurate based on those feet markers it's the viewfinder, if not it could be the lens.

If it is in fact the viewfinder, replace it with a zeiss finder.

moominsean · « **Reply #2 on:** December 29, 2010, 09:00:22 PM »

i'm having the same issue with my 195, but only sometimes. yeah it could be the finder. also make sure the supports aren't bent. the front lens part should be parallel with the body. i see some on ebay that aren't straight, meaning they were probably dropped at some point.

fbf · « **Reply #3 on:** December 29, 2010, 09:28:51 PM »

Thank you guys. The focus is off almost 99% the time. It's very frustrating. I just tried to use focus scale on the lens and it seems like the problem is from the viewfinder. I will try to get a later ZI finder to replace it.

Also, I am not sure why but the shutter speed is completely off (everything sounds like 1s) on M but when I switch it to X sync, the shutter speed works fine. Any idea?

Thanks again

gregor · « **Reply #4 on:** December 30, 2010, 01:40:00 AM »

have no idea on the m/x issue as I don't know the mechanisms behind that switch. but a lot of cameras with copal lenses recommend only switching to M when you're actually using a M sync flash and otherwise always keeping it on X: implying that there is a change in the manner the blades open/close when on M.

all problems can be solved with the 185 Japanese special edition on ebay right now at 1700 USD (no bids yet)!!

moominsean · « **Reply #5 on:** December 30, 2010, 01:44:42 AM »

1 bid, actually!

gregor · « **Reply #6 on:** December 30, 2010, 01:53:13 AM »

must have happened after I looked. a beautiful camera. while it's awfully tempting I'll stick with my tried and trusted 180...

Skorj · « **Reply #7 on:** December 30, 2010, 03:25:45 AM »

On the focus problem, I assume we're talking about focusing errors, not framing errors? Then as others have suggested, the RF likely needs adjusting. An easier alternative would be to buy another folder, and simply replace - a one minute job with simple tools. If you've got a two window RF/VF anyway, this would allow you to upgrade to a single window unit. But, others like Sean, seem to prefer two-window focusing as the framing errors appear to be less pronounced...

On the 185, these indeed are glorious machines. Really substantial, and a joy to use. Perhaps more a studio or formal shooting tool though, and not really a out-and-about device because of configuration. But nice none-the-less! The USD1700 for the one on eBay now is a fair price, based on their rarity alone. Its not worth that as shooter (when you can get the same, or better, functionality from a 195), but as a collector a different story entirely.

Incidentally, 2001 were made, including number 0000 which I passed on buying this last week - the price was a bit silly. Skj.

fbf · « **Reply #8 on:** December 30, 2010, 03:40:49 AM »

Quote from: gregor on December 30, 2010, 01:40:00 AM

have no idea on the m/x issue as I don't know the mechanisms behind that switch. but a lot of cameras with copal lenses recommend only switching to M when you're actually using a M sync flash and otherwise always keeping it on X: implying that there is a change in the manner the blades open/close when on M.

all problems can be solved with the 185 Japanese special edition on ebay right now at 1700 USD (no bids yet)!!

Thanks again.

I saw that camera and was wondering why people pay so much money for a polaroid body...

btw. I saw that camera when it first came on ebay. The BIN was $3xxx.... then someone bid it.

fbf · « **Reply #9 on:** December 30, 2010, 03:52:58 AM »

Quote from: Skorj on December 30, 2010, 03:25:45 AM

On the focus problem, I assume we're talking about focusing errors, not framing errors? Then as others have suggested, the RF likely needs adjusting. An easier alternative would be to buy another folder, and simply replace - a one minute job with simple tools. If you've got a two window RF/VF anyway, this would allow you to upgrade to a single window unit. But, others like Sean, seem to prefer two-window focusing as the framing errors appear to be less pronounced...

Thanks. I did read the review on 180/195 camera here and how you can replace the finder. I took a look at the spring system but wasn't sure how you suppose to take it apart....

Skorj · « **Reply #10 on:** December 30, 2010, 10:02:39 AM »

Quote from: fbf on December 30, 2010, 03:52:58 AM

I did read the review on 180/195 camera here and how you can replace the finder. I took a look at the spring system but wasn't sure how you suppose to take it apart....

With the VF/RF collapsed forward, the left hand body mount should show a spring and a bar? The right side of the spring / bar (still on the left side of camera), has a 90 degree bend. This little bend needs to be wiggled, tapped, or walked slowly to the right.

Some are tight. Others loose.

Be careful too when doing so as the spring will likely be released with pressure and may fly off. When the bar has freed the body mount, the VF/ RF can then be moved slightly left to free the right mount.

The replacement goes on the in classic reverse... Hope this helps? Skj.

fbf · « **Reply #11 on:** December 30, 2010, 12:26:53 PM »

Quote from: Skorj on December 30, 2010, 10:02:39 AM

Quote from: fbf on December 30, 2010, 03:52:58 AM
I did read the review on 180/195 camera here and how you can replace the finder. I took a look at the spring system but wasn't sure how you suppose to take it apart....

With the VF/RF collapsed forward, the left hand body mount should show a spring and a bar? The right side of the spring / bar (still on the left side of camera), has a 90 degree bend. This little bend needs to be wiggled, tapped, or walked slowly to the right.

Some are tight. Others loose.

Be careful too when doing so as the spring will likely be released with pressure and may fly off. When the bar has freed the body mount, the VF/ RF can then be moved slightly left to free the right mount.

The replacement goes on the in classic reverse... Hope this helps? Skj.

thanks a lot. I will give it a try.

gregor · « **Reply #12 on:** December 31, 2010, 03:49:47 AM »

interestingly the ebay auction now point to skorj's FW article on the 195 & 180 and also Sean's blog for reference. Or did I miss this as 1st look on the listing....

moominsean · « **Reply #13 on:** December 31, 2010, 04:40:20 AM »

brian is selling it...

gregor · « **Reply #14 on:** December 31, 2010, 04:14:54 PM »

makes sense ;-)

fbf · « **Reply #15 on:** January 11, 2011, 02:44:36 AM »

I just got a Zeiss finder and the problem is still there...I tested it a little and it seems like the focus is out by 1 feet or so... when it is in focus, the image is super sharp...

Is there anyway to adjust the focus myself? not sure what's out of whack and causing the problem

Heather · « **Reply #16 on:** January 11, 2011, 09:25:13 AM »

This probably isn't your problem but I'm an idiot and didn't realise you had to pull out the bellows/front part of the polaroid 105 (or whatever it is that I have) until it clicks into place... and I was wondering why everything was out of focus. Doh. I only had it sort of pulled out but not quite enough...

Francois · « **Reply #17 on:** January 11, 2011, 03:56:33 PM »

Quote from: Heather on January 11, 2011, 09:25:13 AM

This probably isn't your problem but I'm an idiot and didn't realise you had to pull out the bellows/front part of the polaroid 105 (or whatever it is that I have) until it clicks into place... and I was wondering why everything was out of focus. Doh. I only had it sort of pulled out but not quite enough...

Not an idiot at all... how some Polaroids work is not always completely obvious...
I had one on which I couldn't make the bellows get back in...
And a simple Colorpack that wouldn't trigger until I realized I had to turn the shutter button for it to work...

gregor · « **Reply #18 on:** January 12, 2011, 12:26:24 AM »

if you replaced the finder it could be the struts on the bellows are bent, throwing the focus off, or your lens needs collimating. did you get any type of warranty with the purchase? I'm assuming it focuses accurately at infinity and the markings on the right strut is aligned to infinity?

fbf · « **Reply #19 on:** January 12, 2011, 01:45:54 AM »

Quote from: Francois on January 11, 2011, 03:56:33 PM

Quote from: Heather on January 11, 2011, 09:25:13 AM
This probably isn't your problem but I'm an idiot and didn't realise you had to pull out the bellows/front part of the polaroid 105 (or whatever it is that I have) until it clicks into place... and I was wondering why everything was out of focus. Doh. I only had it sort of pulled out but not quite enough...
Not an idiot at all... how some Polaroids work is not always completely obvious...
I had one on which I couldn't make the bellows get back in...
And a simple Colorpack that wouldn't trigger until I realized I had to turn the shutter button for it to work...

Thanks but I opened the camera okay. It did take me 10 mins to figure out how to close the camera at first....

fbf · « **Reply #20 on:** January 12, 2011, 01:47:29 AM »

Quote from: gregor on January 12, 2011, 12:26:24 AM

if you replaced the finder it could be the struts on the bellows are bent, throwing the focus off, or your lens needs collimating. did you get any type of warranty with the purchase? I'm assuming it focuses accurately at infinity and the markings on the right strut is aligned to infinity?

Just by looking at it, I don't see any physical damage or any loose movement on the bellow. The focus patch does align okay on close distance and infinity.

gregor · « **Reply #21 on:** January 12, 2011, 03:04:35 AM »

you say shots at the closest distance and infinity are in focus? well then, it kinda sounds like bent struts but it's pretty impossible to know w/out looking at the camera. can you post a digital shot if the top of the camera with the bellows open and a shot or two of the images you've taken with it? Is there consistency when, for example the reading on the strut is at, for example, 6 feet, all shots at that distance are off focus similarly or is the off focus seemingly random?

fbf · « **Reply #22 on:** January 12, 2011, 03:11:26 AM »

Quote from: gregor on January 12, 2011, 03:04:35 AM

you say shots at the closest distance and infinity are in focus? well then, it kinda sounds like bent struts but it's pretty impossible to know w/out looking at the camera. can you post a digital shot if the top of the camera with the bellows open and a shot or two of the images you've taken with it? Is there consistency when, for example the reading on the strut is at, for example, 6 feet, all shots at that distance are off focus similarly or is the off focus seemingly random?

Sorry, I meant the focus patch aligns properly at all ranges but the actual pictures all appeared out of focus. I will try to post some pictures of the camera later.
Thanks again

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #23 on:** January 12, 2011, 11:55:43 PM »

I've just scan-read this post so slap me if I'm asking a stupid question, but is everything out of focus all the time, or is the problem that your subject is out of focus on the print, but in focus on the RF?

fbf · « **Reply #24 on:** January 13, 2011, 02:58:06 AM »

Quote from: ed.wenn on January 12, 2011, 11:55:43 PM

I've just scan-read this post so slap me if I'm asking a stupid question, but is everything out of focus all the time, or is the problem that your subject is out of focus on the print, but in focus on the RF?

The focus on the RF is okay meaning the yellow patch aligns fine from minimum focus distance to infinity; However the pictures are always out of focus if I rely on RF but it works fine if I use scale focusing.
From my not so technical test, the focus is off by about 2 feet

Francois · « **Reply #25 on:** January 13, 2011, 03:40:23 PM »

Just some very random thoughts after having been awaken by a wrong number too early this morning:

Isn't there a set screw to calibrate those rangefinders?

And how much out of focus is out of focus?
Do the rails extend fully?

Isn't focus an overrated concept?

gregor · « **Reply #26 on:** January 15, 2011, 04:00:55 AM »

we can only speculate, endlessly, based on textual descriptions of the problem. Please post some photos of the camera and polaroids taken so we can help better.

fbf · « **Reply #27 on:** January 17, 2011, 05:58:50 PM »

Sorry about the delay. I finally got time to take some quick shots....

Zuan · « **Reply #28 on:** January 17, 2011, 06:38:08 PM »

from your photo 4 it looks like your inferior struts are not fully extended...

gregor · « **Reply #29 on:** January 18, 2011, 03:40:53 PM »

hard to tell if looks off from the lens distortion on a digital camera or angle of the photo, but the struts look off (and not fully extended). There also seems to be a missing spring. In the photo here the spring should be where the red rectangle is and where the arrows are the bellows look like they aren't extended to the same length.

I'd suggest you measure those to see if they are different...

Zuan · « **Reply #30 on:** January 18, 2011, 04:56:18 PM »

I hava a Polaroid 350 but the design is the same:

moominsean · « **Reply #31 on:** January 18, 2011, 05:02:36 PM »

like mentioned above, looks like you are missing a spring on the bottom, which is part of the focusing mechanism. you should be able to get on from a cheap folder and replace it. would be a pain in the ass but doable from underneath. i imagine that is is important to focusing...

Zuan · « **Reply #32 on:** January 18, 2011, 06:03:13 PM »

without the spring is not possible to keep the strut in the fully extended focus position, I have a Polaroid 420 with the same problem but the spring just come loose so I adjusted and everything works fine now

fbf · « **Reply #33 on:** January 18, 2011, 10:35:04 PM »

Thank you so much guys. You were absolutely right. The spring is missing.
The good news is I do have a parts 250 body which I took the finder from and the spring is there.
Bad news is I am not sure I can replace the spring myself. I would have to go check a manual or something to see how the spring is attached behind it.

Francois · « **Reply #34 on:** January 18, 2011, 10:59:27 PM »

Looks like a spring with loops. You might be able to attach it to both ends with long nose pliers without dismantling everything.

fbf · « **Reply #35 on:** January 19, 2011, 02:50:53 AM »

can someone with 195 or 180 take some bigger pictures for me? Particularly the two side connection and how it looks at on different focus distance. I would really appreciate it. I took it apart and it is actually very easy to do but there are many different ways the spring can be loaded on. The 195 and 250 are very different. There is a metal bar inside 195 which is lacking in the 250. I am not sure how that bar should be oriented.

Thanks a lot.

moominsean · « **Reply #36 on:** February 22, 2011, 07:48:22 PM »

i'm in the process of fixing my 195 and have discovered that it doesn't use a spring like the other cameras. both my 180 and 195 use springs, but the 195 has a metal bar instead. my problems seems to be from bent struts (dropped it when i tripped on the dog leash)...

more info when i figure it out. will probably blog the thing.

anyone else with a 195 verify the no spring thing? skorj?

Chris A Fraser · « **Reply #37 on:** February 22, 2011, 08:09:56 PM »

Hey Sean
I just pulled my 195 off the shelf and I do not see a spring in mine.

mijonju · « **Reply #38 on:** February 22, 2011, 08:27:32 PM »

Wait is this problem solved? I can fix it simply, if its solved then congrats, if its not, ill take some photos and show you how to fix it.

moominsean · « **Reply #39 on:** February 22, 2011, 08:43:37 PM »

may not be so simple! you can see how bent the struts are. if you know of an easy way to fix, let me know! if not, i will probably just get another body and put the 195 front on it if i i can't get it straight. will try brute force first.

moominsean · « **Reply #40 on:** February 22, 2011, 11:46:33 PM »

swapped out the body with one from a 250 (with a nice big zeiss finder!) that i got for $50. was relatively easy, and the test shots verify that the focus is spot on! the prints are too wet to scan.

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #41 on:** February 23, 2011, 12:17:42 AM »

Sweet! Glad that worked out, Sean.

moominsean · « **Reply #42 on:** February 23, 2011, 02:07:43 AM »

i blogged about it, of course...

http://moominsean.blogspot.com/2011/02/dr-moominstein-returns-polaroid-195.html

fbf · « **Reply #43 on:** February 24, 2011, 01:34:57 AM »

Quote from: mijonju on February 22, 2011, 08:27:32 PM

Wait is this problem solved? I can fix it simply, if its solved then congrats, if its not, ill take some photos and show you how to fix it.

I have been lazy lately... plus having too much fun with 4x5 camera...

If you have an easy way fixing it, I would love to hear/see it.

Thanks.

fbf · « **Reply #44 on:** February 24, 2011, 01:36:04 AM »

Quote from: moominsean on February 22, 2011, 07:48:22 PM

i'm in the process of fixing my 195 and have discovered that it doesn't use a spring like the other cameras. both my 180 and 195 use springs, but the 195 has a metal bar instead. my problems seems to be from bent struts (dropped it when i tripped on the dog leash)...

more info when i figure it out. will probably blog the thing.

anyone else with a 195 verify the no spring thing? skorj?

Man, you don't know how much time I spent trying to fix the spring onto the 195.......no wonder.

Skorj · « **Reply #45 on:** February 24, 2011, 11:15:07 AM »

Quote from: moominsean on February 22, 2011, 07:48:22 PM

anyone else with a 195 verify the no spring thing? skorj?

Confirmed. Mine has no spring. Though! One famous war photographer working on an assignment had me repair his 195, and it indeed have a spring as well - automagically opening with the '1' lever being lifted.

Though, being nearly as old as me, it might have had some surgery. Unlike me. Skj.

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #46 on:** February 24, 2011, 05:27:42 PM »

Quote from: Skorj on February 24, 2011, 11:15:07 AM

Though, being nearly as old as me, it might have had some surgery. Unlike me. Skj.

Damn! You look that good with no extras? Seriously, not even a little botox here and there?

moominsean · « **Reply #47 on:** February 24, 2011, 09:43:06 PM »

keep it in your pants, ed!

mijonju · « **Reply #48 on:** February 25, 2011, 10:06:41 AM »

Here is a message to FBF,
ok, i suspect your mirror kinda shifted, so
open your window on a nice sunny day point the camera towards the outside, look for a tree, a building or a hot nude model, ( i have one when i open my window so..) that is far far away at infinity and set it there.

take a screwdriver take the top plate out.

use a really small, ( i donno what driver it is called almost like a pin)
set your camera to infinity and start twisting the points one by one "SLOWLY" it will break your glass if you over screw it.

i dont recall but there are 1 for tilting left and right, there is one for up and down and one diagonally? looser goes up? tighter goes down, maybe. dont remember.

do this slowly until your setting to infinity is perfect and it looks perfect in the finder too.
you can either put some light bond(weak glue) (save you time getting it off in the future) or just leave it as it is, until next time when it doenst sync nicely then you repeat the process.

after that close the top plate and you are ready to dance.

hope this helps, if its some other major camera body problem, then as advised above, look for a cheap second hand body and replace the front unit..

moominsean · « **Reply #49 on:** February 28, 2011, 08:47:10 AM »

this will be useful info for my next project, which is to put a wide lens on a pola front. will use a spare 250 for the job. viewfinder won't be accurate for framing, but if i can get the focus right i will be happy...