Topic: Lomographic Society Thread Thingy on Fickle

[Ed Wenn]

This is absolutely awesome: http://www.flickr.com/groups/polaroid_/discuss/72157624310340551/
 

p.s.
Sorry for my drunken comment. I felt really unclean after commenting on a Flickr thread about the Lomo Lot, but it had to be done.

[astrobeck]

but it's okay for Lomo to rip everyone off with ideas, etc. etc.

I have a strong dislike for Lomo.  And I'm not the least bit tipsy... 

[Ed Wenn]

Wow! It's been close on 10 happy years that I've been sharing various forum spaces with Ms. Becky Ramotowski and this is the first time I've heard her being negative about anything....and to be honest I couldn't think of a more fitting target...apart from maybe the people who ran Polaroid into the ground.

Anyway, this has made my night.
 

[Miles]

You have to hand it to them, ?100 for ?5 Zenit and Feds, I nearly laughed when I first saw that.

On your thread there Ed, you're right that they are still filmers so part of the gang but they do have that evil empire aura that a plucky Coronet user just loves to hate.  Or maybe I'm getting all Communist Scooter Boy there I don't know. (Redskins !)

I popped in the shop in Carnaby St the other day to browse and see how much film was but there were no prices up and my hackles rose ...

[sapata]

Regardless all that love and hate lomography thing, the  repply email  in my opinion was very unprofessional.

[Ed Wenn]

Agreed...there are other issues to discuss here, but I thought it was funny that someone was surprised that the Lomographic Soc would think this way.

[Alan]

I have been browsing around the Lomo Soc. site on and off
for a while now and I often wondered about their pricing . . .

How are they getting away with it?

They are obviously selling stuff, fair play if people are willing to pay,
but its just wrong.

[gregor]

I heart the lomographic society because:

• If I take a badly composed photo I can say it was shot from the hip, and thus it's a good shot and accepted by the lomographic society with unconditional love.
• If I put the thingy on the back at 16 and put the thingy inside the camera that says 12, I'm not stupid, I'm artistic.
• If I don't know how many times to twirl the advance winder it's cool to overlap photos if you can get your film to expose (see below).   Someone called it a holgarama. I have a DianaF+ Mr. Pink (it's pink) so I think they are pinkaramas. Someone said something about a red window. I can't find it - every time I look through the viewfinder there is no red window in it (if anyone knows about this please tell me what I need to do).
• I got a free book with Mr. Pink - it has really cool shots.  Even one of andy warhol by some old guy.
• Likewise, if I don't know how to load a roll of film and it comes out blank, I'm still not stupid. In fact I may be brilliant and 200 - 300 other lomophiles will copy me as long as I upload scans of the blank negatives (how cool is that - to be a trend setter?). So far I have shot 3 blank rolls in Mr. Pink....  I'm trying a new one tomorrow with Lucky film. I think it will work out - that's why it's called Lucky
• If I don't know something, I can post a question and at least 50 people will tell me an answer in posts in less than 5 minutes (some of then are right I think).  The society is super helpful
• I get piggy bank points. In the last 5 years I've earned 3 USD.
• there's tons and tons of cool stuff you can get, be, or  wannabe.

There's lot's of good stuff about the lomographic society. I don't know why you have to be so negative. They almost as good as the Rajneeshes and you get things instead of giving them up!

[DS]

yeah, they make my skin crawl with their hype and hipster marketing. The pricing drives me mad too- not because i want any of the stuff but more because they are making a lot of money that I'm not by selling overpriced tat to the brainwashed & I really wish I'd thought of it first....

They really do seem to get their hooks in people too- an example: I met a friend of a friend. He saw me taking phoaties with my Zorki and we got into a conversation about how much fun it is shooting film. He had an LCA and a Diana + bought from LS but they had been stolen a few weeks before. He loved taking pictures (and pretty good they were too...) but was too skint to buy a new camera. 'No probs' sez I- I have endless film cameras of dubious quality- agfa clacks, clicks, biloras, rubbish 35mm P&S cameras and so on that can give you the 'fun' results you got with your old ones- but these you can have for free. He was really interested, eyes lighting up- "are any of them Lomographic?". Me: "ermm.. no". Him: "well maybe I'll just save for a new lomographic camera". Me: "you're turning down free stuff- do you realise how !!!!ing dense that is?". Him "but they're the only cameras you can use this way". And so on

As Sean puts it perfectly in that thread: "i think the biggest competition for lomography is lack of ignorance".

[Mil Mascaras]

I understand, TIP are already designing their next overpriced camera, between that, the refurbishment of SX-70s (their LCA) that are sold as if they were gold, and the probability of them opening stores in the future in places like London or Tokyo, there's going to be now a choice for the hipster that knows nothing about photography but "shoots lomo from the hip".

By the way the LC-A cameras are now expensive even in Moscow unless you buy it from a babushka that sells all kinds of things and doesn't know what it is. But even many old ladies know somebody who knows foreigners love those and they price them high. The camera guys know the "value" of the LC-A and you can rarely find a good one by less than 2500 RUB (about 50 quid) even on molotok, which is the Russian ebay, it's only in Russian, and mostly sells to Russians.

You can still find a like-new Lubitel for a decent price if you haggle a bit (15 quid or so). Blocky Fed's and Zorki's sell for 7 quid or less, this if from camera guys that take care of them, except for the Leica III copies that cost two or three times as much and maybe more if they have collector's Soviet engravings.

[Francois]

I have been browsing around the Lomo Soc. site on and off
for a while now and I often wondered about their pricing . . .

How are they getting away with it?

They are obviously selling stuff, fair play if people are willing to pay,
but its just wrong.

Just food for thought:

The customer always pays the right price.

Arabian proverb.

[Nigel]

I sort of feel like I'm about to stick my head above the parapet and probably get it shot off, but here goes.

I think you have to be a bit naive if you think Lomo are going behave in anything but a self centred way. They are a business, nothing more nothing less. They exist for no other reason than to make money. It is only their success at marketing themselves, as a friendly bunch of carefree cool photographers, that makes us surprised when we realise they're not.

Now from my little socialist corner of the world I'd love it if all businesses adopted a style of caring capitalism where they treated their customers fairly, being happy to make a reasonable profit for providing a good service. But unfortunately, most people just don't think like that.

In my 9-5 I deal with a lot of big name retailers in the UK. Doing that you very quickly realise that all the things they tell you they care about, are just there because the market department thinks that's what you want them to care about. Whether that be your health, the environment or  sports equipment for schools. The great thing about this forum is all the people I've had dealings with do think beyond the end of their own pocket books, but generally big and successful retailers don't or they probably wouldn't be big and successful. We need to just carry on spreading the word that you can get really great film cameras for very little money and try and ignore the Lomo gang and their shenanigans.

Right I've got that off my chest. Anyone want to buy a real  cool camera from Russia?  

[Ed Wenn]

I think you have to be a bit naive if you think Lomo are going behave in anything but a self centred way.

Agree 100%, which is more or less exactly what I said on the Flickr thread last night.

I think the thing that winds people up the most, or possibly fools them into thinking otherwise for longer, is the marketing schtick that the Lomo Soc uses to sell its wares; very much of the "we're in this together" school.

[Miles]

Right I've got that off my chest. Anyone want to buy a real  cool camera from Russia?  

Speaking of which and being a big time sucker for all things "Curtain" I'm wtg. on a Chaika 3 from the Ukraine that I stumped up 9GBP for.  Wanted to try half frame after seeing Ed's tube station shots and others on Flickr.

Heres to cheap stuff !

[Francois]

Speaking of which and being a big time sucker for all things "Curtain"

I must admit that most "eastern block" stuff does have a certain charm. Even if quality is iffy, it always has that "built like a tank" feeling... I'm a sucker for that too, especially if it has Cyrillic writing on it.

[sapata]

Speaking of which and being a big time sucker for all things "Curtain"

I must admit that most "eastern block" stuff does have a certain charm. Even if quality is iffy, it always has that "built like a tank" feeling... I'm a sucker for that too, especially if it has Cyrillic writing on it.

I also agree with that Francois...  My first SLR camera back in 1990 was a Zenith, it was the only thing I could afford back at the time, after that the list has grown considerably ( and I still got the Zenit ! )

Now... back to the lomography issue, it was only when I moved to London in 2000 that I found the LCA... I  remember this guy selling them in a stall inside Camden Town Market, I don't know how long for the so called "lomosociety" exists but it's pretty strange that someone was selling them like this. I ended up buying from somewhere I can't remember but I thought it was nice to have a non SLR camera to play around,  at that time "toy cameras" was unknown to me . ( let's not forget that back at that time there was no analogue x digital crowd).

The LCA for sure changed the way I approached photography I must admit,  if today I shot with toy/old cameras it is because of the LCA . Would I be into toy cameras today if I hadn't discovered the LCA before?  I guess so, and probably would have spent less in a Holga or Diana camera for example...but I can't deny one thing, the LCA was the first one I saw ! (not that I consider LCA a toy as this is another issue.. .)

That's why I get mixed feelings when it comes to the whole lomography thing, I was fortunate not to get totally sucked in by their powerful marketing at the point of buying films from them for example. In a way  they were also the first I came across to offer me a free espace to upload my pictures,  I don't really know if at that time toycamera.com, filmwasters, my space, flickr etc etc already existed but I saw them first.

[gregor]

I think it's important to separate out the LCA or other eastern block cameras from the lomographic society.
While they've championed them, they've (the LCA, Lubitel, etc.) been around for a long time.

Sure, I had an LCA; bought it from a local camera buff who bought it off a Russian sailor at a shanghai flea market. It was actually a holiday gift from my wife, who has no clue who lomography is and doesn't care one way or another.

It was loads of fun for about a month.

Equating a zenit or LCA is like equating espresso with Starbucks.

Making the distinctions important.

[Ed Wenn]

Damn, Gregor, this post pushes nearly all of my buttons (in a good way).
 

Not to mention that the following snippet sounds like a line from a Tom Waits song:
 

bought it from a local camera buff who bought it off a Russian sailor at a shanghai flea market.

Agree also that it's important to distinguish the Lomographic Society from Lomo cameras and others which they've championed, but not actually manufactured (not originally anyway). Possibly the way that this distinction has become blurred over the last 10 years is part of the reason why a lot of people who are atrracted to the cameras they market, don't realise you can buy many of the same cameras far more cheaply elsewhere.

As mentioned previously, I bought my first LCA via the Lomo Soc and also my first Holga (I think). Prior to that (before I got back into film in a big way in 2000) I'd bought an Action Sampler and a Super Sampler from various hipster stores around the world, but even then I also realised that you could buy Action Samplers not marketed by the Lomo Soc for a fraction of the price...so I did.

To start with I didn't realize the difference between the 'Lomo' in LCA and the 'Lomo' in the Lomo Soc...so I can understand how people are confused by it all these years later.

Francois/Miles: I'm a sucker for Cyrillic script on a camera too. Always will be.

[gregor]

Alright Ed, I'll take the bait:

 To the tune of Don't Go into that Barn:

It's not alright
It's not alright
Don't go join that society
Don't go join that society 

In old shanghai, a drunken sailor
Had an  LCA for the price of a drink
No logo of a hipster
I took a picture of my sister

It's not alright
It's not alright
Don't go join that society 
Don't go join that society

The crunched up letters said lomo
So I paid the price and threw my dice
It said lomo but I ain't no socialite

Don't go join that society....

There's a Cemetary Polka version I'm sure as well :-)

And if that isn't enough I dropped my M3 today and the red din/asa dial fell off the back. I super glued my fingers together putting it back on....

[Phil Bebbington]

Gregor, when will the mp3 be available to download? Make sure you develop a 60 a day habit inorder to fall into character!

[Francois]

Maybe Ed and Damion could put a bit of music to those lyrics
Maybe we should do the first ever Filmwasters Compilation CD 

[gregor]

Make sure you develop a 60 a day habit inorder to fall into character!

It's my understanding that Waits has gone down the straight and narrow and has given up his assorted indulgences.  If my wife agrees (she won't), I'll happily pick up my old 50 a day habit of roll your own Gauloise  for the sake of promoting the CD and funding FM ;-)

[Ed Wenn]

My understanding too is that Herr Waits cleaned up a long time ago. BTW, has anyone here read Innocent When You Dream: The Tom Waits Reader? It's a must-read for all Waits fans. Had me in stitches on occasion. Wonderful stuff.

Gregor, re the smoking....I say let's keep your wife happy. It's generally the safest bet.

 

[gregor]

Gregor, re the smoking....I say let's keep your wife happy. It's generally the safest bet.

;-) I quit 10 years ago - it keeps her & my lungs happy !  I'll have to check out that Waits reader !

[Phil Bebbington]

Thanks for the book recommendation, Ed. I'm a huge Waits fan - gonna get me that!

[Ken B: eyes, I just do eyes.]

I have never understood the whole lomo thing. I have learned to be in the same room as toy camera people and not be judgemental of their mental state  and have even expanded my minf enough to appreciate some of their works.

However everytime someone tries to sell me the benefits of Lomo groups, film groups like APUG, online image groups like Flickr its all I can do to not projectile vomit instantly.

I think Nigel hit the nail on the head - these groups are about making money and nothing else.

Finally if you ?100 for a lomo or ?300 for a Sx-70 more fool you

[Ed Wenn]

Wow Ken, I've never seen Flickr, Lomo Soc and APUG banded together like that before. You bikers are so angry!

 

Agree w/ your final point about pricing though. I was in the Photogs' Gallery in London 2 weeks ago. They're selling an Olympus Trip 35 for GBP65!!!! Not sure if this is anything to do with the Lomo Soc, but even if it's not, you can see where the idea has come from. You can buy those cams on evilBay for around GBP5-15 every day of the week.

[Ken B: eyes, I just do eyes.]

Wow Ken, I've never seen Flickr, Lomo Soc and APUG banded together like that before. You bikers are so angry!

 

Ed, bikers don't get angry, we get even! 

Unfortunately Ed, as you know, many of these groups come to do good but end up doing evil.