Author Topic: Fujifilm FP-100C as Pos/Neg!! (Read 50166 times)

Ed Wenn · « **on:** March 23, 2010, 12:57:10 PM »

OMG, I have just found out that with a bit of fiddling about it's possible to 'reclaim' a decent negative from the Fujifilm FP-100C and the larger 5x4 size FP-100C45 too. Has anyone here tried that? This is fantastic news....and I'm shocked I hadn't come across it before. Hmm, I think I'm going to be spending a lot of time monitoring Bob Crowley's blog

Here's a summary of his instructions for revealing the hidden negative:

"Once you get set up with a nice thick piece of glass, some gaffer's tape, and paper towel and plastic bag, the removal is easy.

Tape it face down sealed all around (when dry)
Cut three layers or so of paper towel to the size and lay them on the black back.
Soak them with bleach - enough to make them wet all over and press into contact.
Place a piece of plastic over that and then a book or something, and go have lunch.
In a half hour, you can lift off the black goo with one swipe very cleanly.
Then carefully clean the back with some windex.
Peel up the tape and get out your loupe! Be amazed at how sharp it can be!
Scan it in and wow."

Now I guess it'll take a few goes to get this right, but I'm very keen to give it a go. It'll be especially useful with the Silk finish because the Silk prints don't scan very well (dimpled surface looks great in the flesh, but not so great once scanned)...and getting the neg from a Silk print will therefore allow for better scanning (not to mention all the other cool stuff you can do with a large neg.

Did I say I was excited?

kuru · « **Reply #1 on:** March 23, 2010, 01:03:14 PM »

I've tested it out after finding out about it in this flickr thread:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/polaroid_/discuss/72157618948828028/

Definitely gives some interesting effects.

vicky slater · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2010, 01:05:43 PM »

scan scan scan scan!

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2010, 01:08:01 PM »

Quote from: kuru on March 23, 2010, 01:03:14 PM

I've tested it out after finding out about it in this flickr thread:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/polaroid_/discuss/72157618948828028/

Definitely gives some interesting effects.

Did you use the same process as Bob outlines in my post, or did your technique differ? Also, how easy did you find it and are there any tips you want to pass on?

kuru · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2010, 01:26:43 PM »

Quote from: ed.wenn on March 23, 2010, 01:08:01 PM

Did you use the same process as Bob outlines in my post, or did your technique differ? Also, how easy did you find it and are there any tips you want to pass on?

I just had them face down on a piece of plastic and used bleach and a cotton ball. Took quite a bit of effort to clean that way, so the tape and paper towel method would be easier. The negs I tested with were all 3 years old and shot in a homemade holga back.

[Sorry, image deleted during forum software upgrade. Please re-upload if so inclined.]

pdewolff · « **Reply #5 on:** March 23, 2010, 04:20:12 PM »

i just gave it a quick try and must say its a better way than the way i used to do it ( soft brush and bleach ) so thanks for this.

[Sorry, image deleted during forum software upgrade. Please re-upload if so inclined.]

Phil Bebbington · « **Reply #6 on:** March 23, 2010, 07:49:01 PM »

Ed! A wonderful discovery. My heart is all a flutter.

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2010, 08:33:05 PM »

Quote from: Phil Bebbington on March 23, 2010, 07:49:01 PM

Ed! A wonderful discovery. My heart is all a flutter.

Phil...I'm so pleased, you're pleased. As a big fan of Ivan The Terrible Kitten I can't wait to see what you get up to w/ this process.

tinm@n · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2010, 08:46:56 PM »

Thanks for posting about this. I am intrigued and looking forward to trying it too.

astrobeck · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2010, 08:57:18 PM »

this is lovely news! Will try it in a sec....

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2010, 08:58:50 PM »

Quote from: astrobeck on March 23, 2010, 08:57:18 PM

this is lovely news! Will try it in a sec....

Cool. I'm about to have dinner. Will expect to see some results when I'm through with the cheese and biscuits at the end

Phil Bebbington · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2010, 09:05:57 PM »

Ed, will there be port as well? Whatever you don't rush it and leave out the port!

astrobeck · « **Reply #12 on:** March 24, 2010, 05:08:25 AM »

gah!
I'm doing something terribly wrong!
The images have vanished!
All I have left is a VERY clear piece of plastic leftover.

moominsean · « **Reply #13 on:** March 24, 2010, 05:18:30 AM »

been meaning to try this for awhile...just too many camera-related things happening at once!

Phil Bebbington · « **Reply #14 on:** March 24, 2010, 07:38:51 AM »

Beck! I guess that is always the problem following written instructions, there is the need to assume we know what the other person meant! Of course, I know this will not deter you! I've just found some old dried up goop that I kept, so I will endeavour to give it a go the weekend. I'm sure Jan won't mind me removing one of the windows for glass!

In the mean time I don't intend sleeping until you get it right. Thank god for Makers Mark

beck · « **Reply #15 on:** March 24, 2010, 08:03:44 AM »

Quote from: astrobeck on March 24, 2010, 05:08:25 AM

gah!
I'm doing something terribly wrong!
The images have vanished!
All I have left is a VERY clear piece of plastic leftover.

DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT attempt to do this with your best work if you are trying this method for the first time. It may mean fatal....such as what Beckster did. I was first introduced to this process about two years ago by fellow Polaroid shooter, Michael Pasture. Whether or not he discovered this alone or found someone who did, is not clear. But he passed that information to me and I swore to never tell. I didn't. I thought he was sitting on a gold mine then with this secret. With time, he may have lead onto just what he was doing with these Fuji peel-a-parts and word got out and spread like butter. I thought it genius and the more the merrier. Also since then, I have seen other alternatives by trial and error by different folks.

Anyhow, I luckily had some of this film and gave it a try. My first try was horrid. Just as Beck found out, mine too vanished. The entire struck image was wiped away due to the heavy application of bleach and swipes. I almost choked. So I tried it again, this time use very little bleach and gentle swipes. One swipe to whiten the black surface...a gentle rinsing...then the second swipe back and forth lightly till a transparent image appeared. Yay, it worked!

Now scanning these things is anybodies guess and doing. To each is own and whatever works best for you is fine and dander. There is probably a hundred ways to scan these transparencies and who am I to tell you its either wrong or right. Everything works and Art Is Hard.

Phil Bebbington · « **Reply #16 on:** March 24, 2010, 09:48:31 AM »

Beck, thanks for this - it adds a bit of structure to the initial instructions. CAUTION seems the way forward until perfected to some level.

I am at least fired up enough to give it a try with some old crap I have laying around!

kuru · « **Reply #17 on:** March 24, 2010, 12:54:51 PM »

This person on Flickr found that Milton baby bottle sanitizer removes the backing with no damage to the emulsion side:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ekoehler7/4457144168/

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #18 on:** March 24, 2010, 01:28:39 PM »

Thanks for the link, Kuru. I'm assuming from the description Eddie includes on Flickr, that he bathes the whole neg in Milton solution and doesn't worry about just dabbing off one side?

I may have to ask him to comment on this. I have Milton tablets in the house all the time so this would be useful to know.

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #19 on:** March 24, 2010, 02:27:45 PM »

Also, if anyone's interested I'd love to get hold of a video tutorial on how to do this for inclusion in a future Filmwasters video podcast. So if anyone ends up with a method which works for them and they're able to produce a succinct and entertaining video of it in action then that wuld be great. You don't need an expensive video camera either so don't let that block you.

Send me a PM if you want to take this further.

Phil Bebbington · « **Reply #20 on:** March 24, 2010, 06:51:06 PM »

Ed, it would be good to have it from the horses mouth so to speak. Perhaps specific questions will yield the right answers. The results look great though. Off to buy Miltons tomorrow.

astrobeck · « **Reply #21 on:** March 25, 2010, 01:01:55 AM »

Well, I tried it again and had a bit better success, but think a video would be great!

One of the tricks is to figure out when to quit scrubbing the black stuff off as there seems to be multi layers of goop and if you go too far, then you have GONE TOO FAR and there's no going back.
Also a diluted bleach/water solution worked better.
The solution I worked with was 1 part bleach to 4 parts water.

This is a quickie shot of an old guitar I adopted from a thrift store yesterday....

[Sorry, image deleted during forum software upgrade. Please re-upload if so inclined.]

original_ann · « **Reply #22 on:** March 25, 2010, 01:52:01 AM »

This is so interesting - I'd love to see a video once someone finds a 'formula' that works for them...

Phil Bebbington · « **Reply #23 on:** March 25, 2010, 07:21:24 AM »

Good try, Becky. Obviously the dilution has made it slightly easier. Looking forward to trying the Milton solution or see the others results if I'm a bit slow.

Miller · « **Reply #24 on:** March 25, 2010, 04:43:26 PM »

Tried this a while ago based on something I found on the web and had no problems at all. Went for it again this afternoon to see if it wasn't just beginners luck and the whole process took about 5 minutes. At the ready are a stiff brush of about a quarter of an inch, glass that fits into your sink, waterproof tape, bleach and a hairdryer.

Firstly tape up the negative side and if you still have the print side I would leave it in situ.
Required is a tape that will not leak, cheap 99 pence duct/gaffer tape I would not recommend. Go for the more expensive strong stuff. Electrical tape may also suffice but do a test first as the problem I guess most people are having is the leakage.

Use strong pressure to get a tight seal, place in the sink and cover with only enough thick bleach to cover the surface area.

Brush lightly and evenly [important] for about a minute or more (the brush seems to agitate the black backing which helps) and just rinse with warm water.

Drain and use a hairdryer set on warm to clear the excess water of the print and glass. Peel away and shazam....

The image was from a slide printer on to FP100c (Silk) so this is just a second generation negative. An image straight from a camera would be sharper...

I do not have the required scanner to take this any further but by taking a picture of the negative when on a light panel with my digital camera and using the [negative] option on my limited software I know it works.

Now for a decent scanner and remember the 7 P's [Proper Prior Planning Prevents Pi55 Poor Performance]

Original slide

This-is-damion · « **Reply #25 on:** March 25, 2010, 05:23:56 PM »

Astounding. Nice work Miller.

I'm calling in at Wenn mansions on the weekend, so depending on how mashed we are after the methodrone kicks in, we will hopefully give this a go.

Phil Bebbington · « **Reply #26 on:** March 25, 2010, 05:33:15 PM »

Miller, you are a wonderful person and if it were possible I'd offer to give birth to children for you!

I think even I can follow these instructions.

seanmophoto · « **Reply #27 on:** March 25, 2010, 08:47:20 PM »

I followed a very similar procedure to miller's a few weeks ago
used a q-tip and household bleach to clean the back of the black
and really wasn't very careful while doing it
rinsed in water, no other chemicals

then I realized my epson v500 can't do that size of scan...so scanned half on the 120 row, then the other half and stitched in photoshop

happy with the result...might try more of these soon

negative

positive

my flickr polaroid set
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sanblaspdx/sets/72157623074644833/

original_ann · « **Reply #28 on:** March 25, 2010, 08:55:23 PM »

Thank you Miller! Your images make it so easy to understand and follow! Do you have any problems trying to remove the tape after the fact or did it come off easily?

Miller · « **Reply #29 on:** March 25, 2010, 10:33:07 PM »

Sean : Well ingenious with the stitching and nice work.

Phil: Thanks for the offer but unless you also intend to pay for their upkeep I will have to decline.

Ann: Easier than peeling a Polaroid. I wanted a clean negative which may not be edgy for some but I'm old skool first.

Hope the image below shows this and you boys stay of the meth'...

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #30 on:** March 27, 2010, 07:36:09 AM »

Damion and had had a bash at this process last night after band practice (using 'The Miller Method') and it went really well.

We did some filming (natch), but I'm not sure that much of it is usable...anyway, thanks, Miller, and everyone else for sharing your tips on this process. It's great. Will post more info and results after the weekend. I have a few busy days ahead of me.

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #31 on:** March 27, 2010, 02:08:04 PM »

Quick question y'all....how does one scan one of these reclaimed negs? Damion and I have about 10 to play with, but I think I'm missing the point re how to scan them...and although I say it myself, I'm no dummy when it comes to using the scanner. I have an Epson Perfection 3200 flatbed with an overhead light source for scanning transparencies. Using the standard negative transparency setting I get the purple/blue image below. If I then invert this I get the green/yellow image which starts to look usable once converted to b/w, but I'm clearly missing a step somewhere because I'm not getting the correct colours.

Is our technique wrong when it comes to the bleach bath part, or is it the scan that isn't right?

[Sorry, image deleted during forum software upgrade. Please re-upload if so inclined.]

astrobeck · « **Reply #32 on:** March 27, 2010, 02:32:00 PM »

Ed,
Are you scanning the negs as color or b&w?

gothamtomato · « **Reply #33 on:** March 27, 2010, 02:35:42 PM »

Wow Miller, those were great instructions! Have you contacted Fuji about this? Maybe they'd want you to write an article about it, maybe for their website. Anything like that, that finds more uses for the film & encourages more people to use it helps keep them making it (for all of us!)

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #34 on:** March 27, 2010, 03:04:11 PM »

Quote from: astrobeck on March 27, 2010, 02:32:00 PM

Ed,
Are you scanning the negs as color or b&w?

I'm scanning them as colour.

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #35 on:** March 27, 2010, 03:05:27 PM »

Quote from: gothamtomato on March 27, 2010, 02:35:42 PM

Wow Miller, those were great instructions! Have you contacted Fuji about this? Maybe they'd want you to write an article about it, maybe for their website. Anything like that, that finds more uses for the film & encourages more people to use it helps keep them making it (for all of us!)

Yeah, the instructions were spot on. We've made a video how-to as well, but I want to crack the scanning before I start editing the process together (Miller gets lots of credit during the filing

).

Heather · « **Reply #36 on:** March 27, 2010, 05:07:11 PM »

That negative shown looks like much more "density" than I expected. I'm almost curious as to if they'd work for alt prints (like for cyanotypes). I'll have to try to make one of these negatives and try it out.

Miller · « **Reply #37 on:** March 27, 2010, 09:06:19 PM »

Looks like you have that neg looking sweeeet. Cannot help with the scanning issues but as you could see once I hit 'Negative' on my limited Photoshop software the image corrected perfectly. Guess we need to speak to some techie at digitalwasters.com

Sorry I could not take more pictures of the process but doing two things at once is not my forte and as for credit, well that belongs to Ed for starting this thread and I hope Will Smith is playing me in the movie.....

Mlr

Francois · « **Reply #38 on:** March 27, 2010, 09:35:11 PM »

Maybe scanning as negative with the "correct color" box checked would work (in Epson Scan)?

seanmophoto · « **Reply #39 on:** March 29, 2010, 01:17:34 AM »

busted out the polaroid 195 at a wedding yesterday...recovered three of the negatives today
I'm happy with the way they came out and I'm being intentionally a little sloppy with them to accentuate the look

http://www.seanmophoto.info/blog/?p=313

Phil Bebbington · « **Reply #40 on:** March 29, 2010, 07:41:51 AM »

Sean, the intentional sloppy handiwork looks great! Great move using the 195 at the wedding as well.

Phil Bebbington · « **Reply #41 on:** March 29, 2010, 05:35:57 PM »

Okay, I considered private emails and then thought making a public spectacle of myself might be cleansing!

I have tried this 3 times and am getting nothing - I'm taping it down on glass, black side up, putting bleach on and have tried on three photos. The first I left for just over a minute and the last at least 4 minutes and yet when I wash the bleach off I still can't see through the neg. Am I doing anything wrong? Before you ask I am not using gin instead of bleach! I was just loathed to leave it on more than 4 minutes as most are saying a minute or a bit longer!

Are you using ordinary household bleach?

I was also agitating the bleach a tad with a brush which gradually dissolved, so I know it is capable of dissolving something! Also, when you brush the back can you see it visibly come off?

Not sure of the film though - does it only work with fuji as this might be 669. MMmmmm pondering

seanmophoto · « **Reply #42 on:** March 29, 2010, 05:41:30 PM »

I'm not an actual polaroid film expert, but I don't think this works with 669

I actively brush the black back with a q-tip soaked in bleach quite hard...I've read on flickr that the negative is quite durable

I haven't really been soaking...more like painting with bleach

Phil Bebbington · « **Reply #43 on:** March 29, 2010, 05:47:26 PM »

I guess the thread does say Fuji!

I have just checked and I am using Polaroid 669 - so I can confirm that if it does work it will need a lot longer soaking/scrubbing. I feel cleansed, thank you all for listening - perhaps I will go and shoot some Fuji now!

Or have a gin.

seanmophoto · « **Reply #44 on:** March 29, 2010, 05:49:35 PM »

here are some of the links/info I found months ago that help explain this process

there are multiple threads on flickr,

http://www.flickr.com/groups/polaroid_/discuss/72157622400355632/?search=100c+negative

http://www.flickr.com/groups/polaroid_/discuss/72157620272828141/?search=100c+negative

http://www.flickr.com/groups/polaroid_/discuss/72157618948828028/

also, there is a wedding/portrait photographer in CA that has had a lot of success with this and is also getting negatives out of the 100b black & white film

http://www.twinlenslife.com/2009/11/instant-b-negatives-from-fuji-pack-film.html

http://www.twinlenslife.com/2009/10/unhidden-treasure-recovering-instant.html

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #45 on:** March 30, 2010, 12:18:12 AM »

Whoah! Lots of food for thought there, Sean. Thanks for posting the links. Still working my way through them. I love the fact that someone's gotten a neg out of the FP-100 b/w film...that's pretty big news.

seanmophoto · « **Reply #46 on:** March 30, 2010, 12:32:10 AM »

yeah the 100b looks much more labor intensive...and I don't shoot that film very often myself so haven't tried it yet...its much easier to just scan the goop sides of the 3000b

bobcrowley · « **Reply #47 on:** April 19, 2010, 02:36:30 AM »

I've updated my workflow posts FWIW

http://new55project.blogspot.com/2010/04/blog-post_6525.html

original_ann · « **Reply #48 on:** April 19, 2010, 02:58:54 AM »

Thanks bobcrowley! Do you use paper towels to apply the glass cleaner or something else?

bobcrowley · « **Reply #49 on:** April 19, 2010, 05:59:53 AM »

I did use paper towels for the bleach step and got a textured border, which I left in place when I cleaned up the center with glass cleaner and more of the same paper towel.

More about it at http://new55project.blogspot.com

[Sorry, image deleted during forum software upgrade. Please re-upload if so inclined.] Did that - notice that when u click on the image the curves change, interesting new sw. Thanks