Topic: Impossible Project - Ilford News Release

[LT]

For all those holding out hope for the developments in the polaroid revival, Simon Galley from Ilford Photo has made this Statement over at APUG - hope he doesnt mind me copying it here:-

19th January 2009 : HARMAN technology Limited : Mobberley : CHESHIRE UK

ILFORD PHOTO INVOLVEMENT IN DEVELOPMENT OF NEW 'POLAROID' STYLE INSTANT FILM :

After the decision by Polaroid in 2008 to cease production of its instant films, a much loved method of photography looked set to disappear forever. However, leading photo-imaging company, HARMAN technology Limited can confirm it is now involved in a new venture which could deliver welcome news to millions of Polaroid instant camera fans across the world.

The manufacturer - whose brands include the ILFORD monochrome analogue range, HARMAN PHOTO inkjet papers and KENTMERE PHOTOGRAPHIC products - is supporting 'The Impossible Project' which is being spearheaded by a Dutch business known as Impossible B.V.

Formed by a group of businessmen and a number of ex-Polaroid employees, Impossible B.V. has signed a 10-year lease on part of Polaroid's former factory in Enschede, Netherlands and acquired some of Polaroid's original production machining for producing integral films for SX70 cameras.

As the business aims not to rebuild Polaroid integral film but to develop a new product with new and improved characteristics, it has turned to HARMAN and its 130 years of experience in the production of analogue films for product development guidance and additional insight on manufacturing methods.

HARMAN's product development team has confirmed the manufacturer is able to create the desired instant film but negotiations continue as to the extent of future involvement.

As Howard Hopwood, HARMAN technology's Chairman, points out:

"Recognising the almost cult status and huge following of Polaroid instant cameras, we would love to be involved in any initiative which preserves their future use. To this end, we did try to take on production of Polaroid instant film in the latter half of 2008 but could not reach a commercially viable agreement with the Polaroid Corporation.

The Impossible Project represents a new glimmer of hope but we must also stress that discussions are still in the early stages. We would like nothing more than to reach a satisfactory agreement and should this happen, a prototype could be unveiled by late 2009 with a view to full scale production commencing is 2010".

ENDS :

Simon : ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

[Stu]

That clears a few things up. Thanks.

[salvo]

I think there was a note on the BJP as well, on their site too
http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=836088

quite funny-ish at the newsstand i also noticed there was another photography mag (can't remember which) with an article about the "death" of Polaroid.

[synj00]

Oh Heck ya! 

[gothamtomato]

After I heard about this impossible project, I emailed Ilford asking if Type 55 might be onb the menu (because I knew they'd looked into it in the past). I got this reply:


"Thank you for your continued interest in what HARMAN technology is doing about the loss of the Polaroid product.

You are quite correct to say that we looked at the possibility of making Type 55 product and because of both financial and commercial factors it was not possible for us to take this forward.

Since then we have been approached by a company who have access to the equipment necessary to make the SX70 compatible product but do not have the capability to make the Photo Sensitive product. We are still in discussions with this company and once these have reached a satisfactory solution we will be working with them to establish a new Black and White product that is compatible with the SX70 Camera.

Unfortunately, as far as I am aware, the equipment to make the Type 55 product is not available but if there is a company that has access to such equipment then we would be happy to talk to them about any opportunity that may exist."




In addition, I saw a Fuji rep at B&H the other day and asked him about the possibility of Type 55, and he said there was no way they could do it due to patents and companies involved. I know that all these films have lots of parts manufactured by different companies, but I'm wondering what or who is different about those B&W P/N films that makes them untouchable.

[Ed Wenn]

I know that all these films have lots of parts manufactured by different companies, but I'm wondering what or who is different about those B&W P/N films that makes them untouchable.

This is what I'd like to know too.

[brian]

I wonder if it's possible for the new b&w sx-70 film to have a reusable negative?
somehow...inside.

[LT]

I'm not a polaroid user at all and to be honest, I'm bemused by the whole thing ... other than the pos-neg stuff.  I would have thought this would be the ONLY one worth saving ... surely.  I dont know the full sx-70 details, but I'm assuming you cant use this film in just any polaroid back ... right?  Does it have to be in an sx-70 camera?  if so, then the product life is immediately limited... isnt it?  I cant see that the sx-70 cameras will last forever - although perhaps it's long enough for the impossible bv company to make money I guess.

I expect a heap of rotten fruit to be thrown at me here, but  ... what is the reason for wanting a mono sx-70 film?  I cant see that mono manips would be much fun - more a smear than the colourful impressionist-type colour versions. Can you do emulsion lifts with the sx-70 films?  not sure. 

at least with the pos-neg stuff you get the best of both worlds - you can either have a great little instant print, or make amazing prints from the incredible pola neg smooth tonality and wonderful deep shadow details - or do as Skorj-san does and personalise the process for an individual look.  I cant see how this is possible on sx-70 pics - or is it??

Hopefully someone will put me straight regarding my comments ... but I'm just not getting it so far.

[This-is-damion]

I agree re the sx 70 thing,   would be better to do 600 film as must be a million more cameras about.

id like to give an integral B&W film a go -just gald ilford involved in that as i trust them to come up with something quality.

[salvo]

maybe because the guy behind it is one of the founders of Lomograhy?

below taken from the BJP article, link i pasted above

"Florian Kaps helped launch the Lomographic Society, he was behind the largest online collection of Polaroid images. Now he is leading a group of investors and Polaroid veterans in a bid to relaunch instant film, a year after Polaroid pulled the plug on its legendary films. Olivier Laurent talks to Kaps about his plans."

Probably the sx 70 wold be commercially more succesful for them if they intend to use a similar approach as lomography (retro, hip, funk, cool, garish etc... dunno) ... just my 2p

[gothamtomato]

at least with the pos-neg stuff you get the best of both worlds - you can either have a great little instant print, or make amazing prints from the incredible pola neg smooth tonality and wonderful deep shadow details - or do as Skorj-san does and personalise the process for an individual look.  I cant see how this is possible on sx-70 pics - or is it??

For me, the only thing attractive about the sx70 films is the way they can be manipulated. If these new ones can't be manipulated then I'll have no use for them.

But it could be that they're not even thinking about photographers in this. The sx70 films are used by the fashion industry, as well as TV & movie productions, for continuity. That is a big market. They might see THEM as the market for their profit, and any of us as being merely a sidebar to that story.

For photography artists, I always thought that sx7o was a much smaller part of the market than the peel apart fims, so it seems to me that this might be why they doing sx70.

[beck]

I can't pick this apart and wonder who, what, why, when and where about this whole thing. I am only going to cross my fingers and hope for a nice product and one that is affordable. The project has my support regardless of what rat stinks or not. I like the idea of filling my cameras once again with something new. Thanks for all of the updates concerning the Impossible....

[Francois]

I wonder if it's possible for the new b&w sx-70 film to have a reusable negative?
somehow...inside.

By the way Time Zero film works, I really don't think it's possible. The film needs to work by using pigment migration, which was probably the biggest breakthrough with Time Zero. The way color SX-70 works is quite ingenious. Once the negative is exposed, it gets coated with an opaque gel that also contains the developer. Once the negative is coated, the unexposed dye migrates through the opaque goo until it reaches the surface (different density?). So you end up with a positive image. For a B&W Time Zero, they will have to substitute the color dye with black and gray. But the image probably won't be silver. And the negative, since it is protected from light by the goo doesn't really need any fixing. Once the goo dries, pigments can't migrate anymore. The negative being panchromatic, taking it out of it's protective packet would have to be done in darkness... and there possibly is no real way to stabilize it...

But no matter how you look at it, it's pretty amazing stuff, especially when you look at how many layers the emulsion must have. It might not be the latest technology but it's really ingenious.

[Ed Wenn]

I wonder if it's possible for the new b&w sx-70 film to have a reusable negative?
somehow...inside.

But no matter how you look at it, it's pretty amazing stuff, especially when you look at how many layers the emulsion must have. It might not be the latest technology but it's really ingenious.

For me all instant film is a work of ingenuity. Pure magic.
 

Thanks for the explanation, Francois. Much appreciated as always.

My guess regarding why integral is being concentrated on at the moment instead of peel apart (my personal instant film format of choice) is that Fujifilm already manufacture their own high quality, Polaroid-style, peel apart films (albeit not the pos-neg 55 or 665 equivalents), so there's possibly less of a market for standard peel apart product. I rate the Fujifilm offerings very highly *.

Quite why Impossible have opted to go for SX-70 compatible rather than the 600 format is beyond me, but then I use neither format myself so I wouldn't want to hazard a guess.

* I 'm fully aware that the Fujifilm peel apart film isn't so transfer friendly, so no need to pick me up on that point 

[gothamtomato]

I am only going to cross my fingers and hope for a nice product and one that is affordable. The project has my support regardless of what rat stinks or not. I like the idea of filling my cameras once again with something new.

I agree with that. It would be like what happened 10 or 12 years ago when Paul, George & Ringo got that old tape of John's and built it into a new record. It wasn't a great song, but it was just so fabulous to turn on the radio and hear the dj say, 'New from the Beatles', that it didn't really matter.

I'll feel that way with any new instant film. (But all the while, selfishly, I'd be hoping it was MY favorite film, retaining the properties that I love about it).

And I'll be rooting for its success, because any film that succeeds is good for all of us who love film. And anyone who can make a profit with the new film product is going to encourage others to do the same.

[kuru]

They are doing film that is sx-70 and 600 compatible.

From the BJP article:

The new product, which will be compatible with both SX-70 and 600 cameras, will be released under a new brand name to match the firm's repositioning of integral films.

[moominsean]

it would have to be two different types of film, because the ISO and case is different. course, they could just make one film and throw a filter on top for the sx-70 cameras... and i assume an sx-70 case would fit into 600 cameras because of the lack of tabs.

[kuru]

Yeah, I figure they'll do like they did with the sx-70 blend and have a on pack filter for the sx-70 cameras.

[brian]

yeah, I'm not too sure how the films really worked, to be honest.

I wish they could somehow find a way to have a reusable negative though.
I think it (impss prgct) would be a bit more successful that way, winning over Pola lovers, traditional film lovers, and a lot of digi users seem to be falling back to traditional film too.

I'm just rambling though, and it will probably remain impossible (ha).

But I hope the best, and I will buy whatever they make.

[synj00]

Reusable negative eh? Sounds intriguing. I'm sure it would have to have some sort of secondary chemical reaction in order to put it back into a state to record the light. Someone invented the polaroid so Im sure it could be done. Would be awesome