Author Topic: Q. for the guru, Mr. Leon Taylor...need help with low contrast negs!!  (Read 4284 times)

JonathanLuckhurst

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Hi Leon (or anyone who can offer some advice here)

I was speaking with Susan and she mentioned you'd be the best person for this......I've got some ridiculously low contrast negs...I should have increased development time, but this thought managed to escape me when i had the chance to.

the shots were taken in misty conditions, so there are no real high or low values...

never really had this problem til now, so wondering how you normally handle your low contrast negs?...selenium toning the negs?

i'm using a colour head with magenta cranked up to the max, but it's still not enough...i'm struggling here...i really need these shots.

any advice appreciated. many thanks

Jonathan

LT

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HI Jonathon - I;ve deleted your other post for duplication purposes.  Hope you dont mind.

this is what the digital truth site recommends:

Quote
Chromium Intensifier

Intensifier for underdeveloped negatives
Water   950 ml
Potassium Bichromate   85 g
Hydrochloric Acid   60 ml

Mixing instructions: Add chemicals in specified sequence. Always add acid to water.

Use: Immerse negative until the image is thoroughly bleached, then redevelop in any standard print developer. Fix as normal. This process can be repeated for further intensification.

Or St Adams recommends the following sequence:
wetting the negs
refix in a plain Sodium Thiosulphate fixer (not sure why)
then place in a bath of Selenium toner at about 1:2 dilution (smelly strong), and constantly agitate for 5-10 mins, then wash (using a hypoclear if you're paranoid).

before you go to such lengths ... I'm guessing your enlarger has diffusion or cold light source ... do you have or know anyone that has a condensor source enlarger? You will get a significant amount of contrast increase using one, 1 grade or so (I get about 2 grades between my coldlight head and condensor) so that alone might help, or in conjunction with the intensification you may have the key.

A final note - When my negs turn out low contrast for whatever reason, I'll sometimes interpret them differently and produce high key prints, often with no blacks at all, just subtle shades of light grey - although that might not suit your style.

others are sure to have alternative options ..... hopefully they'll chip in.   
L.

Francois

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Like Leon, I would try and accentuate the misty look of the image.

There are many types of intensifiers. Some are proportional while others are not. There are also silver based intensifiers which react differently than chromium ones. Check out the Photographer's Formulary website, they probably have one of the finest selections out there.

Enlarger light will also accentuate contrast. The most contrast can be had with a point light source. These have fallen out of favor many years ago but can still be found. If not, I think using a condenser light with a clear bulb (with a vertical filament) probably would give similar results. On the downside, every speck of dust shows like big black spots and require extensive spotting.

If all fails, you can always try to copy the negative on copy film. Every time you duplicate a negative, contrast increases quite a bit.

You can also do a paper negative and play with the densities using artist's charcoal on the back side. On the first positive print, you accentuate the shadows. On the second negative print, you accentuate the highlights. Then, you have your final print from the second paper negative.

I've never done it, but it might be a candidate for lithprint. The process can give surprising results (like good prints from low contrast color negative) so it might be worth a try.

You could also do a digital negative...

Are we forgetting something...
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

Fintan

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Are we forgetting something...

Just as a total alternative, how about using them in a negative sandwich or do multiple printing?

JonathanLuckhurst

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That's great, thanks alot everyone for the great answers...

In a way, I do like the look of the subtle grey tones, without the blacks...looks more like a pencil drawing. So, perhaps I'll work with it a bit more and see...

If all else fails, the chromium sounds toxic but very effective....

I have yet to play with paper negs, but this might be a good chance to try! would you definately use artist's charcoal here...say, over pencil?

Thanks again
Best
Jonathan

LT

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I've had good effect with a very soft pencil on the back of paper negs.
L.

Francois

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The thing is that you want sufficient density. Work on a light table and you'll pretty fast figure out how much is too much. Fun thing is that it allows you to get your fingers dirty :)
You can basically use anything as long as it is darker than the base :)

Soft pencil will work just as fine. Only difference is that charcoal might be easier to blend...

You could do the same with an airbrush and black ink... the only thing is you can't erase black ink.
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

LT

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Francois - I personally find soft pencil easier as I can get more accurate fine detail and it seems to give a denser maximum than charcoal - I have a 9B that i use.
L.

JonathanLuckhurst

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thanks Leon and Francois...definately keen to try this out now...

do you use anything to make the print more transparent? i've heard of people using beeswax etc. is it necessary? do you get a kind of "blotchiness" with the print?
cheers
Jonathan

LT

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I dont do that for paper internegs - I think it;s done when paper is used as an in-camera neg, although there no reason why it cant be used for either.  I havent noticed a need to to this though.  I always use a thin rc paper as my interneg, seems to work a bit better than FB although I chose it cos it's cheaper too.  The image is often quite a bit softer in my prints using this method, but strangely it also seems to increase shallow DOF effects, although that could be a problem in my contact printer I guess.

Andrew Sanderson is a master of this method - http://www.andrewsanderson.com/categories.php?category=0  I'm sure he wouldnt mind an email from you if you want some more indepth advice. 

 
L.

JonathanLuckhurst

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Re: Q. for the guru, Mr. Leon Taylor...need help with low contrast negs!!
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2008, 12:42:18 AM »
Hi everyone

I finally got around to trying out the paper negative....I'm pretty excited about the results...very textured and painterly results.

The one thing that is bothering my though, is that some areas of the prints are completely blurred, whereas other areas are fine. This is even happening in areas which have the same plane of focus...ie-part of it will be in focus, some of it out of focus.

Any ideas on what's causing this, and how to prevent this from happening? I'm trying to get as much sharpness as possible.

I've attatched a couple of examples of prints that I'm pretty happy with so far.

Many thanks
Jonathan

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LT

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Re: Q. for the guru, Mr. Leon Taylor...need help with low contrast negs!!
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2008, 10:44:07 AM »
That first one looks amazing jonathon ... really abstract in a great way.  I think th efocus problems might have something to do with the paper neg being not entirely flat against the print paper?  I find that shallow dof is almost made more shallow py usuing paper negs -  a strange phenomenon
L.

JonathanLuckhurst

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Re: Q. for the guru, Mr. Leon Taylor...need help with low contrast negs!!
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2008, 04:55:16 PM »
Hi Leon

yeah, you're probably right. guess i'll just stack some more glass on top to help flatten it out. thanks for the tip.
cheers
Jonathan

JonathanLuckhurst

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Re: Q. for the guru, Mr. Leon Taylor...need help with low contrast negs!!
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2008, 04:18:23 PM »
tried printing with glass above AND below the paper, with more glass on top. this seems to have reduced blur.

but...in some cases i'm liking the blur...like in the two images i've attatched. lots of experimenting still to do.
cheers
Jonathan

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Francois

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Re: Q. for the guru, Mr. Leon Taylor...need help with low contrast negs!!
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2008, 04:51:50 PM »
I'm going to go for the dumb question: you sure the surface on which you put the paper is totally flat?
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

JonathanLuckhurst

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Re: Q. for the guru, Mr. Leon Taylor...need help with low contrast negs!!
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2008, 04:57:31 PM »
hey Francois...in the case of the two images i just posted, the surface was not completely flat. i posted them because i like the blurred effect created. when you don't have the surface completely flat, you're never sure what you'll get, so it's a bit random.
cheers
Jonathan

LT

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Re: Q. for the guru, Mr. Leon Taylor...need help with low contrast negs!!
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2008, 05:27:00 PM »
Jonathon - if this is what you get when you embrace the blur, then keep hold of it as tight as you can - these are superb!

more than a hint of LS Lowry about them.
L.

rdbkorn

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Re: Q. for the guru, Mr. Leon Taylor...need help with low contrast negs!!
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2008, 07:44:57 PM »
Jonathan, these are wonderful. The attitude of the silhouette figures makes me think of the work of the painter Richard Ciccimara. One example of his work can be seen here: http://collection.aggv.bc.ca/explore/867

It's not the most relevant, he had many silhouette paintings with multiple figures arrayed in ways somewhat similar to some of your images.

Paul

JonathanLuckhurst

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Re: Q. for the guru, Mr. Leon Taylor...need help with low contrast negs!!
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2008, 05:23:30 AM »
thanks for the comments. i was a little unsure of how they would be received.
everyone's advice on the paper neg. is totally appreciated.
best
Jonathan

synj00

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Re: Q. for the guru, Mr. Leon Taylor...need help with low contrast negs!!
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2008, 05:43:16 PM »
Just got to chime in and say WOW! Im really glad you took the time to try and save those photos. You could have just wrote them off but the results are amazing.  :o