Topic: Looking for advise in film: Provia 100F

[MacArron]

Hi guys,


This summer I contacted a woman who was willing to have her own photo book. So we talked  long about the matter and it all ended up with me involved as 'the photographer'

She has black hair, snowy white skin and intense blue eyes.

We are still waiting for the right moment to do the shooting. The question is: would it be a good idea to use Provia F100 as the film shop seller recommends? I'd like to obtain her natural skin and eyes colour, but also I wouldn't mind it the rest of the colours were more saturated. What I do not want for sure is a 'carrot' look as with Velvia in sunny days.

BTW, I know about Portra as the film intended for this use, but my first idea is slide.

Any advise will be much appreciated.

Thanks.

[Late Developer]

I've used Provia 100f on a number of occasions and, although it's a lot more "neutral" in terms of colour palette than Velvia 100f, I've never really thought of it as something I'd have as a "go to" choice for portraits.  Great for landscapes when you don't want the intense greens and blue/purples that Velvia offers.

I can't speak for the guy who's trying to sell you Provia 100f as he must have his reasons but, for me, as slide film has less latitude than print film and Portra is the best I've seen at rendering skin acceptably well, I'd definitely be sticking to the "tried and tested".

[MacArron]

Thank you Late Developer for your reply. I suspect the seller is more a digital guy who has to deal with film (oh, what's this...) and the very few geeks that come and go, without having any idea of what he's got on the shelves.

I have been overviewing the Flickr stored photos with the ProviaF tag and there are a very very few portraits. So this doesn't seem to be the right stuff for this project.

Nevertheless, I do love the contrasty and crispy colours of slides and I would like the results of this shooting session to be this way. Portra is fantastic for portraits, but to me and this time it is kind of soft. I have been using the inexpensive Agfa CT Precisa 100 in 35mm (there's no such a film for medium format and I will shoot this session in 6x6) and I am really pleased with its portrait results. It is a very 'leveled' positive film.

I'd like the same in medium format  if not ProviaF, is there any other with the required specifications out there?

Thank you.

[MacArron]

You can have a look to my results with Agfa CT Precisa 100 in 35mm:

http://manualens.com/foro/index.php/topic,19030.msg170867.html#msg170867

http://manualens.com/foro/index.php/topic,18449.20.html

[Late Developer]

Hi MacArron.

Like yourself, I really like slide film and have shot loads of it down the years - but mainly for landscapes where a bit of creative interpretation for colours isn't usually an issue.  Even in the days of Kodachrome and other Kodak, Agfa, Perutz and even Ilford / Polaroid slide film, I never found one that I felt did skin tones justice - when I wanted a natural look. 

I've never found Portra "soft"; (softer) than many slide films, perhaps, but a little tweak on PS contrast / curves can make a big difference.  If your sitter wasn't so pale skinned and had less than "black" hair, I might try something other than Portra.  The other issue to consider is scanning and post-processing.  I've never found it quite so easy to get slide film to scan as well as negative film.  Incidentally, are you intending to use natural light or tungsten / studio flash?  A "gold" reflector would add some warmth to a pale skin colour....

An alternative 120 film option might be Fuji Pro 160NS.  I've always thought of this as a lovely film for skin tones.  If you're shooting 35mm, maybe consider CineStill 50 - pushed a stop?

Anyway, these are only my thoughts / suggestions. Please let us see the finished results.

[hookstrapped]

I agree that Portra is not really soft. When Portra had two lines, a vivid and a natural (I think those were the terms), the natural was a bit soft, but when they consolidated the film into a single line I think they clearly went more toward vivid.

[MacArron]

Thank you guys for your answers. I really appreciate them and I am thinking about switching to negative for this kind of work... Of course here I might use Ektar also, but to me it tends to blue and while it is ok for some uses, I do not really like for portraits. So probably Portra will do the job much better 

[gothamtomato]

Provia is the film I used for years to shoot stock - mostly people. It gives you great accuracy in skin tones if you use it properly. It isn't at all like Velvia, so no worries there. Velvia was developed for a particular use in the Japanese market and that is why it has the punchy, red bias it does.

Provia is different. It was developed for and I love it for photographing people. If you're using a film for the first time, I'd always recommend you test it our before your big shoot.

Portra is gorgeous too, and negative film will always be more forgiving if you are off on your exposures, but if you can meter accurately you'll love Provia.

[MacArron]

If you're using a film for the first time, I'd always recommend you test it our before your big shoot.

Silly me!! This is the advise I was looking for 

I'm going to get one ProviaF roll and give it a test. Very simple 


Thank you.

[SLVR]

probably repeating a bunch here but whatever.

kodak portra had NC and VC back in the day like fuji had provia and velvia. provia being more NC and velvia being more VC.

Kodak did update their portra line and removed the NC/VC however portra 160 leans more towards NC while portra 400 and 800 I find lean further towards the VC spectrum.

[Ed Wenn]

Hi All, I had a chat with Damion and Leon earlier this evening and we decided it made sense to remove some of the posts from earlier in this thread. There was clearly a misunderstanding in progress and we thought it best to nip it in the bud. I'm not sure we've ever deleted posts from any thread before, so this isn't something we do lightly - and we wouldn't do it without drawing attention to it - but we couldn't see how any of the earlier back and forth would be useful to the FW community in any way (other than to act as a cautionary tale).

Right....as you were :-)

[Indofunk]

Well done Ed, I agree with your collective decision.

[SLVR]

big brother is watching...

[Faintandfuzzy]

Not sure what transpored before...but I'd say Portra 160 is the best bet.  Huge latitude, fine grain, gorgeous skintones.  I jsed it for weddings for years.  Rate at 100 and meter for the shadows under the chin. 

[MacArron]

Thank you.

As soon as I shoot the test roll I already bought, I will post some sample images here.

[Late Developer]

Thank you.

As soon as I shoot the test roll I already bought, I will post some sample images here.

Just a suggestion but why not shoot a roll of Portra 160 at the same time and then compare / contrast the end results?  I don't question that Provia might be the equal or better option but being able to see the differences (and offer the option to the customer to choose) might be a nice touch...

[Francois]

Thanks Ed for taking care of this mess and bringing back the filmwasters I love.

[SLVR]

I hate to be one of "those" people who post samples for everything a la rff... Ah who am I kidding I LOVE posting samples!

I'm not a huge fan of the portra 160. Never had amazing luck with it. However I think this from my recent fuji 690 roll really shows what the film is capable of.

[Mike (happyforest)]

Thanks Ed for taking care of this mess and bringing back the filmwasters I love.

I agree.

[Ed Wenn]

SLVR: Wow! That is a great example of the tonal range of this film; the colours are gorgeous. It's also a great photo. Might I suggest "People Looking Down At Things" as a title 

[SLVR]

It's entitled "Front Row Seat" 

[gothamtomato]

Hi All, I had a chat with Damion and Leon earlier this evening and we decided it made sense to remove some of the posts from earlier in this thread. There was clearly a misunderstanding in progress and we thought it best to nip it in the bud. I'm not sure we've ever deleted posts from any thread before, so this isn't something we do lightly - and we wouldn't do it without drawing attention to it - but we couldn't see how any of the earlier back and forth would be useful to the FW community in any way (other than to act as a cautionary tale).

Right....as you were :-)

 

I had just come back to remove my own post. When I read the post I reacted to, it looked like the poster was being sarcastic and nasty. Maybe I've been watching too much election coverage. Apologies if I misunderstood.

[Late Developer]

It's entitled "Front Row Seat" 

It is, as Ed said, a lovely photo.  It's also indicative of why I use Portra as my "go to" emulsion when I want something that's as neutral as possible.  I find it easier to use it as a base and tweak in PS or LR than starting off with a film that has a bit too much red or other signature "look".  I also find it about the easiest colour film to scan - not that I'm an expert at scanning; quite the contrary 

[MacArron]

Mmm SLVR, the colours of your photo are kind of punchy  I thought Portra was more on the soft side. Fantastic one.

I must say that I have shoot Portra 160 (for 135) in the past and the results didn't show those colours, or better said, no colours at all. They seemed a bit faded.

Well, I have the Provia roll to shoot, so I'm going to start with it and then... we'll see.

[MacArron]

I had just come back to remove my own post. When I read the post I reacted to, it looked like the poster was being sarcastic and nasty. Maybe I've been watching too much election coverage. Apologies if I misunderstood.

Everything is fine.

[Gimenosaiz]

I hate to be one of "those" people who post samples for everything a la rff... Ah who am I kidding I LOVE posting samples!

I'm not a huge fan of the portra 160. Never had amazing luck with it. However I think this from my recent fuji 690 roll really shows what the film is capable of.

Woow!! Portra + Fujinon is a amazin combo in your hands!!
My results with Portra 160 are irregular with 120 and worst with 35 ...

Best regards !

[Gimenosaiz]

Hi All, I had a chat with Damion and Leon earlier this evening and we decided it made sense to remove some of the posts from earlier in this thread. There was clearly a misunderstanding in progress and we thought it best to nip it in the bud. I'm not sure we've ever deleted posts from any thread before, so this isn't something we do lightly - and we wouldn't do it without drawing attention to it - but we couldn't see how any of the earlier back and forth would be useful to the FW community in any way (other than to act as a cautionary tale).

Right....as you were :-)

 

I had just come back to remove my own post. When I read the post I reacted to, it looked like the poster was being sarcastic and nasty. Maybe I've been watching too much election coverage. Apologies if I misunderstood.

¡Un abrazo, friends!
Antonio

[Late Developer]

I've been looking for this for a while - just found it. 

http://canadianfilmlab.com/2014/04/24/film-stock-and-exposure-comparisons-kodak-portra-and-fuji/

Please have a look at the various photos in the link.  Clicking on them opens them up.  Not a massively scientific comparison but it does demonstrate the flexibility of Fuji 160 and 400 and Portra 160, 400 and 800 when "pulled" 2 stops and pushed 2 and 4 stops.

The bottom multi-image shows what happens when pulled by 3 stops.  Although usable to a degree, it's probably a stop too far for most.

Hope it's useful.

[SLVR]

Mmm SLVR, the colours of your photo are kind of punchy  I thought Portra was more on the soft side.

Keeping in mind that it was shot 6x9 and scanned with a Nikon Coolscan 8000 ED the colors are reminiscent of what I usually see even with flatbed scanners. Usually with my portra scans I bump up the saturation around +10 in photoshop but this one didn't get the same treatment. The chroma levels are straight from the scan.

I usually try to get as accurate a color as possible with my scans, I don't often shoot crazy expired film or scan hoping for weird color casts anymore. Though I have noticed with this shot in particular on mobile devices it looks terrible. I'm finding with variation in brightnesses that people run on their phones to save battery it does end up muddying the image and not reproducing true color. Looking at the image at home and at work on what I assume to be proper monitors it does look great though.

[Late Developer]

Mmm SLVR, the colours of your photo are kind of punchy  I thought Portra was more on the soft side.

Keeping in mind that it was shot 6x9 and scanned with a Nikon Coolscan 8000 ED the colors are reminiscent of what I usually see even with flatbed scanners. Usually with my portra scans I bump up the saturation around +10 in photoshop but this one didn't get the same treatment. The chroma levels are straight from the scan.

I usually try to get as accurate a color as possible with my scans, I don't often shoot crazy expired film or scan hoping for weird color casts anymore. Though I have noticed with this shot in particular on mobile devices it looks terrible. I'm finding with variation in brightnesses that people run on their phones to save battery it does end up muddying the image and not reproducing true color. Looking at the image at home and at work on what I assume to be proper monitors it does look great though.

I think that monitor / screen quality is a critical element that is often overlooked.  Whether we shoot film or digital, ensuring colours are accurate and consistent in post processing is vital.  As viewers, ensuring that our screens are calibrated correctly is also crucial or what we see could look very different to how the image looks to the guy who posted it.

I've got a Spyder Pro 4 which, although it isn't the cutting edge, does a good job of keeping my Mac on the straight and narrow, colour-wise.  Like yourself, I try to scan as close to neutral as possible.  If I want to apply some "creative" filters, I've got more than enough presets in LR and Silver Efex Pro2 to keep me going for a very long time.

[SLVR]

I work for a large media company producing graphics for TV and web and I've voiced this numerous times but none of our monitors are calibrated. We run dual setups and between each monitor you can see a difference! Kind of silly.

p.s dont tell anyone

[Late Developer]

I work for a large media company producing graphics for TV and web and I've voiced this numerous times but none of our monitors are calibrated. We run dual setups and between each monitor you can see a difference! Kind of silly.

p.s dont tell anyone

Not really surprised as those closest to the issue are sometimes most blind to it.  The only reason I even know about it is that I was in a camera shop when the guys from Spyder were there doing a demo.  Seeing the end result of a print that had gone through a correctly calibrated monitor and printer, compared to one that hadn't, was remarkable.  I never imagined it would make such a difference.

[SLVR]

Not really surprised as those closest to the issue are sometimes most blind to it.

Combine that with CEOs and management who have backgrounds in every industry other than media and you can get a little glimpse into my frustrations.

BACK TO OT!

[Francois]

One thing's for sure, once you've worked with a properly calibrated monitor, there's no turning back!
Every time I calibrate I check the diff once it's all done and I can't believe what I was dealing with before...

[MacArron]

Replying to this old thread to explain what happened:

The lady who wanted a photo-book abandoned the idea, but I didn't. I had bought one roll for testing before the shooting, and got some more (expired) for more testing. Unfortunately, she rejected the idea.

All in all, you can see some results taken on a sunny day a couple of weeks ago and posted (the properly exposed) in the Weekend post (June 2nd-4th) and also below.

And d'you know what? I bought more rolls of this stuff  I do like the results for portraiture and also it is quite simple to scan, unlike Velvia 

I could not do the comparison test (Portra 160 vs Provia 100F) because I did not have Portra, and at that time I only had just one medium format camera available. Now I have two MF cameras. All I need is a roll of Portra 160 

If I ever do this test, I will post it here.


Portra 100F






And one bonus: Velvia 50 full power 

[MiguelCampano]

Beautiful shots! I love how the colors really pop!

I just put two rolls on the mail to be developed at Old School Film Lab in NH, here in the U.S. Free shipping both ways and $17.50 to develop 2x36 exp rolls of Provia 100F is not too bad. I am not expecting much from the results as it was mostly a testing environment for my camera but I do expect to shoot more slides this summer.

[thatguychad]

I think the results speak for themselves, that Provia looks great. I missed this thread the first time round, or I would have put my vote in for Provia...I love it, even for portraiture.

[irv_b]

As a coincidence I have a couple of shots for the weekend thread that are Provia 100F on 4x5 for tomorrow- not portraits though.