Author Topic: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner  (Read 17816 times)

Ed Wenn

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My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« on: March 16, 2009, 02:11:36 PM »
If fortune favours me today, I should take delivery of a 2nd hand Tachihara 4x5 field camera. I've been thinking of dipping my feet into the wider/deeper waters if LF photography for a while and the Tachihara has a decent rep as a very lightweight field cam, so I took the plunge on evilBay recently. To celebrate the occasion I've also just ordered a couple of books on the subject, 'The Camera' by some geezer with a weird name like, Amstel Adams, or something and 'Using The View Camera' by Steve Simmons. The plan is that these 2 books will answer my every query re the use of the Tachihara, but obviously I can't possibly wait to start wasting film with it so I have a few starter questions for the assembled Filmwasters. Worth pointing out at this juncture that initially I'll be using Polaroid film pretty much exclusively (Type 55 and 125i) so no need at the start for info/tips relating to sheet film & its required hardware.

So here's the thing: I have paid for a camera body + bellows + ground glass. As far as I know I'm getting nothing else, so the first question is what do I need to buy before I can start shooting? Lens, lens board, shutter? Anything else and also how do I know what it compatible with what? Do all lenses fit all lens boards? Do all lens boards fit all cameras? I have a couple of old enlarger lenses on long-term loan from Leon. Apparently they'll work with LF cameras...will I need to modify anything to get this happening?

The other thing worth mentioning is that I'm planning to start using the camera for portraits and still life work for the first few months. May not get a chance to do landscapes for a while.

The other thing I want to do is use the camera for pinhole photography. Pinhole + Pola film = bad idea/ Non starter? Hardware-wise what's the best setup for using a field camera as a  pinhole?

...I know there's a lot of questions here and some of them are so basic you probably don't want to get into it, but if anyone has any useful info then please post away.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 02:15:29 PM by ed.wenn »

Karl

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2009, 03:20:03 PM »
I was about to start a thread with a similar title. My 2007 and 2008 new year resolution of putting a Large Format camera kit together has finally materialised with the purchase of a Toyo deluxe 4 x 5 monorail beast in surprisingly good nick for under 90 quid.

This link was useful for me:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses-primer/
especially for all that background stuff that most books fail to talk about.

You will (ideally) need a lensboard, lens, shutter or you can improvise around these items at first - ie make a homemade pinhole board and get shooting with the polaroid film. You'll need to find your lensboard measurements to then find out which boards are compatible (unless the above links tells you - it does cross reference some makes). Then (and LF always seems to have a 'then') you need to choose a lens with a correct shutter size (ie Copal 0, 1, 2 etc) and a lensboard with the right opening diameter...read article! Once you move away from polaroid you will need darkslides and a dark room or changing bag etc.

I have to say after the 'putting it all together' bit, taking a photo seems quite straightforward (bar the weight and size limitations).

Race ya to  post an image...
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tijeras

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2009, 03:38:00 PM »
Congrats you guys on LF cams!  My better half hauls a beast of a TOYO monorail around and loves it.

Great results will come your way!    :) :)

I have cut my own lens boards for pinhole work and just taped them in the openings of the cameras with black photo tape.

I used thick black craft stock and then trimmed a center hole to tape the pinhole in.  So far this has worked well.

You can use online pinhole sites for details on exposure, etc.  I like http://www.mrpinhole.com/ and have found it quite useful.

Not all lens boards fit all cameras, and the same with lenses.  I don't have a comp chart.  Perhaps Francoise will chime in.

Have fun! And can't wit to see the photos you guys make.

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2009, 03:41:51 PM »
Congrats to you both - much fun will ensue in future, for sure.

The link Karl posted is one I found helpful in first figuring out what lens to look for when I started in 4X5/5X4.

Much fun can be had using a makeshift lensboard as described by Becky, and taping a $1 magnifying glass to it. Once you've focused on a subject, dividing the bellows extension by the diameter of the hole in the lensboard will give you a good approximation of the f-stop for your magnifying lens.

Also looking forward to your first images.

Karl

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2009, 04:51:59 PM »

Much fun can be had using a makeshift lensboard as described by Becky, and taping a $1 magnifying glass to it.

sounds great, will give it a go
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Ed Wenn

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2009, 05:28:44 PM »

Much fun can be had using a makeshift lensboard as described by Becky, and taping a $1 magnifying glass to it.

sounds great, will give it a go

Yeah, me too. This is just the kind of thing I need to help scratch the "must use new camera" itch during the time I spend reading up on which 'proper' gear to buy. Thanks for the input, people. Karl thanks for the lens primer link too. EXACTLY the type of detail I need right now.

I'll take you up on the race, but bear in mind I may not actually have my camera waiting for me when I get home, so you have a slight advantage.
 :D :D :D

p.s.
Becky you have changed Francois' gender by adding the 'e'....but he may not mind that too much.
 ;)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 05:30:24 PM by ed.wenn »

gothamtomato

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2009, 06:40:22 PM »
There's a great forum with all the info you'd need:

www.largeformatphotography.info/forum

Francois

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2009, 10:08:35 PM »
p.s.
Becky you have changed Francois' gender by adding the 'e'....but he may not mind that too much.
 ;)
Well noticed Ed... I won't mind (though I don't like it much) as long as it doesn't require me changing into tight fitting clothes and raising my voice pitch by a few octaves.  

Becky, I have learned to be tolerant about misspells in my name when it comes to changing languages... so don't feel too bad about it. I usually don't mind missing cedillas. But apart from that, I like it better when it is spelled correctly (Francois is the French version of Frank). You haven't seen all the ways my name and address gets spelled when I get mail from the U.S. ... and non of it is spelled correctly. I must give the Postal Service a 5 star rating simply for getting it to my door. But every time it happens, my language starts to deteriorate (slightly).

But back to those little shiny things we put on our cameras :)

Large format lenses are all very good, so investing in a very recent or expensive lens is pretty much useless. The thing that usually goes bad is the shutter, so this is what is worth checking first. All lenses are not the same diameter, so a lens board must be drilled at a specific size for each one. Lenses can be sent to a repair shop for a clean, lube, adjust procedure. But I prefer finding a good working lens and just using it as is since getting a tech to open the shutters could get expensive.

Some lenses, like the wide angle lenses, often require bag bellows for proper movements. Others will only require a recessed lens board (for lenses wider than 90mm). Lensboards for Tachihara are only for Tachihara. Same thing with most models unless specified otherwise.

As for the enlarger lenses without a shutter, they will allow too much light in unless you also add a very dark neutral filter. For those, you could get a Packard shutter. These go inside the camera and have usually 1 speed and Bulb. They work using a piston to activate the shutter. Reliable but could be a bit limiting when it comes to speeds.

As I said, older lenses can be great. I have a Graphex lens which is nearly 50 years old ans still clicks with a good snap after all this time. I also have a Schneider lens which is more recent that works good. I usually don't like press shutters. They have a lower maximum shutter speed and I have one which I need to repair (S***** job).

Multicoating isn't much an issue if you use a proper lens shade. Another good mark for old lenses.

Pinholes are a simple and cheap way to start. Don't buy one since it's so easy to make them. I tend to like the Pinhole Designer from http://www.pinhole.cz/ .
It makes exposure compensation charts so you can accurately expose the film on the first try.

So, there you have it... not stupid questions after all. :)
Francois

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Ed Wenn

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2009, 10:35:06 PM »
Francois, thanks for the info; you have delivered the goods as expected. I've read elsewhere the same thoughts on lenses so it's great to have that confirmed by someone whose judgement I trust...I'm a sucker for anything vintage so I will definitely be on the lookout for a nice old lens.

The good news is that the camera was waiting for me when I got home from work. The even better news is that all the parts seem to work (I have read - since purchasing the damn thing - that older model Tachiharas aren't particularly rugged and therefore a bit of a risk to buy second hand)....mine however appears to be in pretty good condition.

Photos attached; although all they really show is a nice-looking wooden field cam, but hey, what can you do? I'm a proud father.
 :D :D




Finally, apologies on behalf of the Forum for the fact that the character set we use doesn't support cedillas (and quite a lot of other characters too for that matter). I may look into it the next time that I'm fooling around at the back end (as it were  ;) ;)).

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2009, 10:45:13 PM »
If you don't have time to read the books (or are too impatient to :) ), I have uploaded some pages from an old Calumet catalog that explain all the important stuff to know.

   


As for the cedilla, don't worry about it Ed. I don't care about it, it doesn't affect my manlyhood :)
Francois

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Ed Wenn

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2009, 11:10:19 PM »
Wow! Thanks, Francois. A great little collection of 'cheat sheets' to get me started. Perfect.

tijeras

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2009, 01:22:10 AM »
my apologies to Frank.

But  I knew he would know. :)

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2009, 02:17:21 AM »
It looks like you have really nice new camera, Ed.

The good news about Tachihara lens boards is that you can use a Tachihara or Wista or Linhof lens board--they all fit.  The bad news is that new, they are a little bit expensive.  Of course, it should be easy enough to find a used one.  You might check out this discussion thread:

http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/003FaI

My suggestion about lenses is to look for simple triplet or symmetrical designs like tessar, xenar and caltar (triplet) or g-claron and ektar (symmetrical).  These are less expensive and easy to find used.  They also can be small enough to fit inside your camera while folded up.
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Karl

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2009, 09:51:11 AM »


I'll take you up on the race, but bear in mind I may not actually have my camera waiting for me when I get home, so you have a slight advantage.
 :D :D :D

now you have the camera (and very lovely it looks too) and polaroid film so I think you have nudged into the lead. I've got to work out a way of developing hp400 with no proper equipment!
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Ed Wenn

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2009, 11:03:50 AM »
Fair enough; let battle commence.

 :D :D :D

Assuming my Pola backs will fit the Tachihara, I'm hoping to try out a makeshift plastic lens today just to get a feel for it...but I probably won't get time during the daylight truth be told.

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2009, 12:16:21 PM »
nice one ed.

Do you have a Pol 545 back already? I guess they could be cheap at the moment anyway..

Ed Wenn

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2009, 03:57:14 PM »
nice one ed.

Do you have a Pol 545 back already? I guess they could be cheap at the moment anyway..

Hi Don. Yep, I have a 545 and a 405. Will be wasting 125i film via the 405 back until I know what I'm doing (could be a few years) and then I'll use up the few packs of Type 55 I have before finally moving onto sheet film/paper negs etc. and do the whole thing for real....that is assuming I finally work out how to open the damn thing.

 ;) ;) ;)


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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2009, 04:43:58 PM »
HI Ed,

I am new to 5x4 as well and on a steep learning curve, I acquired a Chamonix 45 2 months ago and just acquired 2 Schneider lens (150 and 210) but haven't put all the pieces together yet to take a proper picture. I have been looking into using the fuji instant film with the PA45  holder or Polaroid 550 any idea where if I can find any of these with a UK retailer?

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2009, 07:39:55 PM »
I presume you came across this in your searches but if not...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/tachihara.htm

gets a great write up
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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2009, 10:13:02 PM »
I presume you came across this in your searches but if not...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/tachihara.htm

gets a great write up

...actually that's 100% why I opted for a Tachihara and waited patiently over the last 6 months until one came up for sale. The stupendous photo of Mr Rockwell using the hugest lens ever invented on his homepage notwithstanding, I actually like some of the info & writing on his site and I've been an infrequent visitor there over the last several years.

Ed Wenn

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2009, 10:18:52 PM »
I have been looking into using the fuji instant film with the PA45  holder or Polaroid 550 any idea where if I can find any of these with a UK retailer?

Hi Rachel. I have a Polaroid 550 back/holder and have used it in the past with the large format Fuji packfilm as you suggest. I bought mine on evilBay. It wasn't super cheap and they don't come up all the time, but you should get one if you set up an automated search. Bought mine about 4 years ago so couldn't tell you how much I paid for it. Works well though and will definitely be another string to my 'instant film bow' assuming I get on with the Tachihara.

Mr Cad in Croyden tend to have a lot of fairly esoteric gear in stock (new & second hand). Worth giving them a call. Hell, if you've never been there it's worth a visit if you live anywhere even vaguely close. I can't imagine there's another camera shop in the UK that's even remotely as mind blowing re vintage/weirdo gear.

Well done on the Chamonix, BTW. They are lovely.

How much did you pay for your lenses if you don't mind me asking?

LT

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2009, 10:40:21 AM »
Also worth trying Nicholas Camera Co in Camden. www.nicholascamera.com. They have a ton of old weird and wonderful gear - quite steep though.
L.

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2009, 11:27:14 AM »
Robertwhite.co.uk often have second-hand LF stuff that they don't list on their site.  They're very helpful, if not cheap.

Ffordes and MW Classic are the other places to check for used and vintage stuff...  Nearby to me there's the Real Camera Company (www.realcamera.co.uk) which is similar to Mr Cad in having that Aladdin's Cave type feel - Jem there is very helpful, and will usually help you find things that they don't have to hand.

(Sadly the old chap who used to work there seems to have gone ... he was an old school Red Under The Bed and would alternate between describing the virtues of various old lenses and the writing of Friedrich Engels...)

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2009, 01:05:27 PM »
Thank you all for your info, I will try my luck with the ones you mentionned.

Ed I bought the lens through MVX photographic and paid ?295 for the 210mm and ?395 for the 150mm.

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2011, 08:58:27 AM »
Just found this very interesting and informative thread. Hope you guys don't mind me resurrecting it for my own purposes...?

Last night I acquired a second-hand Wista 5x4 cherry wood and brass field camera. It's got a Wista 150mm "press lens" (which fires as part of the cocking action - but you can use a cable release as well). I also acquired a couple of double-sided Toyo film holders as part of the deal.

However, the camera is missing a locking nut for one of the struts that holds the camera front. Teamwork in London (Wista's current UK importer / distributor) has been less than helpful when I asked if they could source one. I've contacted to SRB Griturn in Bedfordshire who should be able to make a replaement for me. Alternatively, I'm off to B&Q to see if there's a wing-nut in stock that'll do the job.

Does anyone happen to know what the thread diameter is for this nut, please?
The other thing is that I think I'll cut my teeth on instant film until such point as I get confident enough with the results to "go commando" and start using FP4+ etc. So, my next question is:

What is the best (cheapest?) instant film back and which - ideally B&W - film is best to start with?

This really is uncharted territory for me right now, so I would welcome any practical, money-saving tips that anyone can offer.

Cheers. Paul.
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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2011, 01:03:13 PM »
sorry, I can't help with anything LD (666 posts! hail satan! ;D )

but I just wanted to thank you for bringing this up, very very interesting read :)
/jonas

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2011, 03:51:48 PM »
Well, for the screw nut you could use a thread count gauge. They're usually pretty cheap.
But for free, you could just take screws with a known thread count at the hardware store and simply put them on the camera's adjustment screw and check if the ridges and valleys match.

Just be careful at high thread counts: sometimes metric looks awfully close to imperial... close is not good enough when it comes to screws.

Have you tried contacting Wista directly
http://www.wista.co.jp/
Francois

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2011, 05:27:57 PM »
L to the D

You name it and I've found the rare bugger here... Near Leather Lane Market and well helpful... Just bring what you have...

http://www.allinlondon.co.uk/directory/1100/15422.php

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2011, 07:52:27 PM »
I've no idea about your nut, Paul, and I have never used a polaroid back or instant film ... but I can congratulate you on your purchase.  I know you won't regret it ... although, given the way Lara said, "No Paul" every time you looked at my camera on Saturday, I think she might ;)

L.

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Re: My new 5x4 Field camera & its stupid owner
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2011, 08:54:31 PM »
@ Jojonas. Well, this makes 667, so the spell is broken.... ??? Touch wood, I've never been superstitious.

@ Miller. Cheers buddy, I'll definitely give it a go. Any news on Mubby?

@ Francois. If the shop that Miller suggested can't help, I'll definitely give your suggestion a try. I would contact Wista directly but, despite asking the UK distributor for their contact details, they've declined to provide them or contact Wista on my behalf. I've been all over the Wista website - which looks a good 10 years out of date - and there's no "contact" option on there either. Weird.

@ Leon. Thanks for the good wishes. I still need to get the low-down on which Pola back to get as I'd like to have some instant feedback on my early efforts - to at least show what I'm doing (right or wrong). Once I'm up to speed and confident, I will probably revert to sheet film - though some of the Pola images I've seen look very tasty.

Incidentally, Lara's just changed cars and now has possession of a new-ish BMW 325i - and most of the cost of the Wista / lens / film holders was covered by a couple of lenses I no longer need. Make hay while the sun shines, my friend...... ;)
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 09:52:53 PM by Late Developer »
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