Author Topic: Lens Info for Erin  (Read 10401 times)

Ed Wenn

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Lens Info for Erin
« on: March 05, 2011, 08:48:32 AM »
And yeah, is there someplace on FW where you talk about how you made your own lens? I keep wanting to do that but all the sites I find that talk about how to make your own lens are so involved that I always get confused and give up reading.
OK, so 2 things you need to know on this subject:

  • If anything in photography becomes 'involved' or takes more than 20 minutes to complete, I don't do it. I'm not built that way in the brain and I don't usually have much more time than that to complete any single task.
  • Usually when people like me write 'home made lens' what we really mean is 'taking a lens that someone manufactured and mounting it on a camera in some way or another. We're not out there grinding glass/plastic and shaping our own lenses as that would break the 20 minute rule.

Years ago, Susan Burnstine gave me a 10 minute Masterclass on 'home made lenses' based on her experiences of the previous couple of years; when that girl does things, she does them properly. Everything I've done with modified/home made lenses since has been based on that conversation. So full credit due to her. Without that conversation I'd have been nowhere.

Anyway, I pretty much always use SLRs for obvious reasons given that I favour lenses which give a lot of distortion, a lot of blur and very shallow DOF. I generally use a single element lens. Susan told me right off the bat that the best thing to use was a loupe. Not wanting to copy her idea I spent many years using other lens combos (generally from other cameras, kids toys, binoculars etc.) before deciding to try a loupe and finding that, guess what? Yep, it worked really well  ;)

The way you fit the modified lens to your camera(s) depends on what the camera is, how good your are with your hands, and how anal you are about keeping your cameras clean. I used to use a Great Wall for all my lens mod experiments, but bought a Bronny S2A about 4 years ago and have found that to be an excellent camera for housing the modified lenses. As for the hands and the need to keep the camera clean...erm, not me on either score. I go simple and messy and use lots and lots of tape to construct a flexible (and reasonably lightproof) cone with the lens fixed at the top. See photo. It looks messy, but until you've tried the lens you're not really going to know whether it works, so investing a lot of time and effort in making a beautiful housing might be time wasted. Mine looks fugly.



I'm getting to the point with this setup that I like it so much I'm thinking of making something better (either out of rubber, or heavy cloth). When you make your housing make sure that you give yourself enough 'cone' to play with to enable you to focus at something approaching infinity. Depending on the lens you're using, you'll be surprised just how far away from the front of the camera the lens needs to be before it'll focus on the interesting tree 100 feet away.

Oh yeah, you'll need to work out the equivalent f stop for your new lens. Mine comes it at around f2,8. I worked this out precisely and with a fine degree of mathematical accuracy by looking at the f4,5 lens that came with my Bronny and guessing that the hole on the new lens was about twice as big. I've metered at f2,8 ever since and it's worked out fine.

Hope that helps dispel some of the myths that photo anoraks like to build up around lens mods. The truly hard part is taking a good picture once you're all set up....that bit never gets easier  ;)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 08:52:12 AM by ed.wenn »

vicky slater

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2011, 09:06:54 AM »
i wish we could fave threads.

Alan

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2011, 10:01:11 AM »
looks . . . kinda weird but the results from the w-end thread are absolutely great
love the effect the lens gives!

nice one.

Francois

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2011, 03:30:56 PM »
Well... nice work Ed  ;D

I'm there spending endless hours making stuff only to learn today that ample amounts of tape would have done just as good a job ;)

 ::)  ::)  ::)

Just pulling your leg there  ;D
Francois

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Ed Wenn

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2011, 03:45:30 PM »
Hey...I never said it was pretty!

 :D

Francois

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2011, 03:50:46 PM »
Like they say: if it works don't fix it... unless the tape starts to peel ;)
Francois

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Mojave

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2011, 04:55:22 PM »
Ed, this is so totally awesome!!! I cant thank you enough for doing this. Honestly, thank you, thank you, thank you. And thank you for finding a way to use the word "fugly." LOL! Always been one of my favorites.

So I understand what you used for the lens and how it works on the body because of how you attached it, but my question is, where is the shutter? For all of my film cams, the shutter is in the lens and the body just has the mirror. I know this must be a really stupid question but I cant figure it out on my own.  ???  ;D

And regarding the ap size. Is this just the size of the opening in the loupe? And we are talking just a standard focusing loupe here, right?

Thank you so much again Ed!!!
mojave

Terry

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2011, 05:51:22 PM »
Mojave--I don't know the Bronica specifically, but assume it's like most SLRs and uses a curtain shutter just ahead of the film plane and behind the mirror.  In this case, it'd be just in front of the mounting point of the back, as it is in the Kiev 88 (and some Hassys...?)

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2011, 06:34:44 PM »
Ed- thanks for posting this. I love camera systems involving copious use of tape.

Mojave--I don't know the Bronica specifically, but assume it's like most SLRs and uses a curtain shutter just ahead of the film plane and behind the mirror.  In this case, it'd be just in front of the mounting point of the back, as it is in the Kiev 88 (and some Hassys...?)

Yeah- some hassies- the ones with F in the name for 'focal plane shutter'. The c/cm are all in the lens leaf shutters (I think C is for Compur but i might be making that up). The original hassy 1000 / 1600s are focal plane shutters.

The Kiev 88, 60, Pentacon 6 all have focal plane shutters. I bought a P6 for these kind of experiments but haven't got around to playing properly with it yet.

The speed graphic is a lens hacker's dream too- as it is large format with a shutter in the body (which is how folk use them with the super-fast aero ektar lenses). I want one.

Ed Wenn

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2011, 12:02:14 AM »
Yep, as others have said, the shutter is in the camera on the S2A not in the lens as it is - for instance - in the SQ and ETRS series Bronnys. The Great Wall works well in this regard too. You can also try it with any number of 35mm SLRs.

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2011, 11:29:22 AM »
Hey Ed,

Your posting came at a good time. For the last few weeks I have been working on a similar project - using various optics adapted to a Rollei SL66. My set up looks a lot like yours at present - lots of black tape, elastic bands, string and putty. (I must say that your red tape adds a certain "designer quality" that my black tape fails to convey!)

The basis is the front element of a pair of binoculars mounted via an inverted lens hood. I am using the S.W.A.G method to calculate the f-stop. (Scientific Wild Assed Guess)

Hope to run a test film today! Thanks for sharing.

Regards,

Lawrie.

Jeff Warden

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2011, 03:49:30 PM »
Great job, Ed.  The red tape makes it look sporty.   ;D

You can't argue with the pictures you shared on the weekend thread, which are wonderful.  Don't change a thing.

Jeff

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2011, 05:07:16 PM »
I know what's missing on Ed's camera to give it that sporty look: Checkered stripes!
Francois

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2011, 05:27:35 PM »
So I need to find out if my Pentax has the shutter in the body. Do all 35mm SLRs have the shutter in the body?

I wish I could afford a Hassy or Bronny but thats not possible with a new grandbaby and a trip to Kansas in my near future. Not sure I'll like the 35mm format as much as the square format when it comes to these homemade lenses, but I really want to give it a try.
mojave

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2011, 05:37:10 PM »
So I need to find out if my Pentax has the shutter in the body. Do all 35mm SLRs have the shutter in the body?
Yes they do.
The only difference between the different makes is the thickness of the camera which also happen to dictate how close the lend must be to achieve infinity focus.
Francois

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2011, 05:47:26 PM »
Awesome!!! So Im going to try this. I read a post recently, not here on FW but elsewhere, where the lens was made using a plunger for a kind of bellows. I think this would be a lot like a Lensbaby, but wont know until I try it. Has anybody tried this before? And is this what is called a "Monocle Lens?"

So, since I wont have any way to actually mount the lens contraption to the body of the cam, Do I just tape it all up and use it that way? Im guessing yes and will find out soon enough I suppose, but just want to ask anyway.
mojave

Francois

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2011, 09:58:56 PM »
If you want to do a more elegant job, you could get a T-Mount adapter and a telescope mounting tube from an astronomy store... but they're usually quite expensive.
Francois

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2011, 10:25:16 PM »
I actually have one of those. Got it a long time ago when I got my dobsonian (sp) telescope but never used it. Never thought about that. So I just mount the homemade lens to that with tape and attach...oh brother. What a DUH moment. I have had so many photography related DUH moments and this a good one. Since there is no shutter in that telescope mounting tube, and since telescopes dont have shutters either, it only stands to reason that I have a shutter in the body of the Pentax. Like I said, DUH!!!  ::)
mojave

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2011, 10:33:31 PM »
It's not so bad... for a long time I wondered why camera lenses were not rectangular since the image on the negative is... we all have these moments.
Francois

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2011, 12:49:43 AM »
LOL! Thank you Francois.
mojave

astrobeck

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2011, 05:38:58 PM »
If you want to do a more elegant job, you could get a T-Mount adapter and a telescope mounting tube from an astronomy store... but they're usually quite expensive.

If you decide to go this route, let me know.  I have made all sorts of contraptions for my scopes and cameras.  I  find it best to just tinker and then tinker some more.  Be happy to help though.
 ;D
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 05:40:49 PM by astrobeck »

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2011, 07:02:38 PM »
Will do Becky. I plan to try something out as soon as I get a focus loupe so I'll email you when I get it.
mojave

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2011, 09:09:43 PM »
this is ever so clever and exciting! I love seeing people's brilliant hacks.  late last year i purchased a set of glass magnifying glasses.  The hardest part I think will be to file off the plastic handle so I can cleanly mount them on lensboards and use them with the ole Speed Graphic.  I will report back once I've gotten off my duff and completed said project!

Francois

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2011, 09:26:02 PM »
The hardest part I think will be to file off the plastic handle
Think metal cutting hacksaw... it cuts through the handles almost like butter.
Francois

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Mojave

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2011, 10:40:06 PM »
I got some loupes, 3 different kinds, off ebay today. I didnt know what to get and they were super cheap so I got 3 different kinds. I saw the magnifying loupes too. And hacksaws are super cheap at any hardware store. I have a Dremel and love that thing. With the cutting blade, you can cut all kinds of metal and plastic.

This is fun!!

Oh, and Ed, I'll be making this for my Pentax ME Super so if it works  out, I'll share it with a new post. I think Im going to pick up a plunger at the hardware store.
mojave

Ed Wenn

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2011, 12:01:21 AM »
Awesome. Look forward to seeing your results...or reading about them at least.

Photography is fun, isn't it  ;D ;D ;D

Mojave

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2011, 12:44:12 AM »
Oh my, yes it is!!!
mojave

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2011, 02:12:55 AM »
Thank you Erin & Francois - I have both a hacksaw and dremel - - never really figured out the dremel - which attachment to put on for what... but that might be an easier thing to do since I get a lot of pain in my fingies at times.

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2011, 08:58:05 AM »
I have a big collection of old loupes, medical lenses and plastic bits and bobs that I usually modify old Holgas with, but I have been toying with the idea of modifying my Great Wall...

Mojave

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2011, 01:58:56 PM »
Ann, if you need help with that dremel, PM me. Im quite familiar with power tools in all shapes and forms and the dremel is one of my favorites. That, and the Rotozip.

And Suzi, I have always been so impressed with people who can use different lenses on Holgas. I have never been able to figure it out. I need an SLR so I can actually see what the lens is doing.
mojave

Phil Bebbington

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2011, 10:31:31 PM »
I've been away and often I don't bother with the threads that I've missed - well, you know, catching up can be a pain. I'm sure glad that I did with this one.

Ed, thank you for posting.

Ed Wenn

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2011, 03:08:35 AM »
Welcome back, Phil. I trust you had a fantastic time?

I have been toying with the idea of modifying my Great Wall...
Suzi, the Great Wall is arguably the King/Queen of the MF SLRs when it comes to strapping on a modified lens or two. I had two mods which worked really well on mine. The first one used the bellows and lens from an old Zeiss Ikon 6x9 that my friend, Micha, gave me for parts after it broke. It looked like this:



and took pictures like this:



I actually really like the results looking at them now and wish I'd done more, but it only lasted a couple of weeks. At the time, the process was more important for me than the image - how things have changed!! - and I felt that it wasn't enough of a modification (for some reason I remember feeling like I was cheating), so I took it off and made up a far more street-cred-worthy home-made lens.

This seconds lens used some totally deconstructed lenses from a standard 50mm cheapo I had on an old Zenit 35mm SLR. This worked really well and I liked it well enough. I think I had it on my Great Wall for 2-3 years. Other than the mirror shot below, I don't have any pictures of the camera with this lens, but it was the usual mess of red and black electrical tape. Main difference was that the lens sat almost flush with the front of the camera. It worked well though:

 


Finally, it's worth mentioning that the very first thing I tired after taking off the Great Wall's own lens was to stick a Holga lens on the front with 2 elastic bands (a super temporary mod!) and got some decent close-ups:



If you want to see larger versions of any of the above go here: http://www.flickr.com/search/?ss=2&w=73515369%40N00&q=great+wall&m=text
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 03:15:00 AM by ed.wenn »

Mojave

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2011, 03:39:10 AM »
Ed, wow! All those shots are incredible, but that second set you posted...I dont even know what to say. Each image pulls on my heartstrings in a really strong way. I am so completely attracted to the blue shot of the tree branch and right now I cant even explain why, but man, do I love that shot!!!
mojave

Phil Bebbington

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2011, 10:42:04 PM »
Ed, a wonderful time  was had. 6500 miles and 6 states. I'm now dealing with my body clock. The film is being processed as we speak!

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2011, 04:28:02 PM »
I much appreciated the information in this thread. 
(The thread led me to this group from Google.)
Many thanks to Ed Wenn for sharing his experience.

I've been experimenting with mounting various old
lenses to my SL66.  I managed to fit a meniscus
lens from a ca. 1910 Vest Pocket Kodak into a
lens barrel made from a black plastic funnel (it
looks better than it sounds) and mounted it onto
the SL66 -- the results pleased me:


Hiking Coleman Boundary. by sandersnyc, on Flickr

I would appreciate hearing from others who
have taken a shot at using old lenses on the
SL66, and seeing the results of their efforts.
Sanders McNew
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Mojave

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2011, 05:16:30 PM »
Rollie, that is one gorgeous shot!!! I havent a clue what you did with your camera since I dont understand what you've written but the results are fantastic!!!
mojave

Sandeha Lynch

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2011, 05:51:28 PM »
Wow.  Too good these results.  Shows what you can do with figurative peanuts, or a tuppeny lens on a £500 body.  Come to think of it I often use a £600 lens on a £10 body.  But, Ed and Sanders, if you have more than 20 minutes to spare I'm sure you could try something like this and have a permanent rig for whatever lens.



This lens is a 90/4.5 Laack, an unusual little process lens that runs sharp from 15" to infinity.




You'll recognise the parts, and that's all there is to it.  Just a little cutting and machining, and while this one is for 35mm it shouldn't be too difficult to get hold of an MF macro bellows with whatever mount at the body end.

Francois

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2011, 05:56:29 PM »
There's also this contraption I made last spring...
http://www.filmwasters.com/forum/index.php?topic=3916.0
While a bit on the heavy metal side, it works and is still a work in progress as I'm trying to improve the results.
Francois

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2011, 06:46:57 PM »
Rollie, that is one gorgeous shot!!! I havent a clue what you did with your camera since I dont understand what you've written but the results are fantastic!!!

I set the lens in a funnel, and glued the funnel
to the back of an SL66 lensboard.  I'm attaching
a couple of photos of the assembly on the premise
that a picture is worth a thousand words.
Sanders McNew
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Francois

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2011, 08:49:04 PM »
And the mirror has enough space to flap around?
Oh, yeah... I forgot that the SL66 has bellows focusing...
Francois

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Re: Lens Info for Erin
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2011, 09:15:18 PM »
And the mirror has enough space to flap around?
Oh, yeah... I forgot that the SL66 has bellows focusing...

Not a problem, though it must be close. 
The lens is about 70mm FL, a bit wide,
so the lens has to go inside the camera
body to focus more than a few feet away.
Sanders McNew
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