Author Topic: Thin Negatives  (Read 9879 times)

bennyC

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Thin Negatives
« on: January 30, 2007, 03:05:43 PM »
Could someone give me some direction regarding a negative?

It's thin, very little image, mostly clear. The image is very dar. I know that there are going to be places where there's just no data. That's fine. What I am most concerned with is the face.

Straight printing with dodging and burning, pulling back on the face using the smallest apeture, is producing lighter but cloudy images. Some one suggested split filter printing but I've heard that only works on balanced negatives.

I was thinking my next direction should be to drop down to 1 or 0 filter, maybe even the 00.

It's the end of the month so papers short. I need maximum results with the least amount of paper spend. I reckon to do that, change filters, next with the obvious d&b for highlights and shadow. I'm using polymax and Edwals rapiid fix if that helps. Any idea? Any magick spells?

BennyC

Francois

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Re: Thin Negatives
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2007, 03:13:42 PM »
Get yourself a bottle of either chromium or silver intensifier. It will clump to the existing silver and meke the image more visible.
Watch out because this stuff is wickedly toxic!
You process it by inspection so you stop intensifying when you're satisfied.
Check out Photographer's Formulary. They have a good selection in stock.
If too short on cash, I once read that Selenium toner can also be used to intensify... though it is less efficient at it.

Good luck
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

bennyC

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Re: Thin Negatives
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2007, 03:28:24 PM »
Agent O,
I'm a bit confused. Thi is something I do to the print, not the negative? I make the lighter print and then tone in this? I have selenium toner. I'll look it it if that's the case. I'm a bit scared to tinker with the negative, that's why I ask. Thanks.

bennyC

FrankB

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Re: Thin Negatives
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2007, 04:14:11 PM »
An intensifier is something you'd use on a neg and I can understand your hesitation. Probably best to experiment on an easily-reproducible test neg first.

Do you have some time pressure on you to get a result from this neg? If not it might be better to work on something else until paper is more plentiful.

If you have to proceed now then personally I'd try a pale-ish Grade 00 test print to see where you have information in the neg. It'll be grainier than Kelloggs but should give you an idea of what you have to work with.

I'm a fan of split-grade printing myself and often find it the most efficient way to arrive at the desired contrast setting for a print. Again, experimenting with new techniques is probably bedt left for a time when you have more paper to play with.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2007, 04:19:24 PM by FrankB »

astrobeck

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Re: Thin Negatives
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2007, 04:17:58 PM »
I'm interested in your results.
Would you post a sample when you've finished the print?
astro


LT

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Re: Thin Negatives
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2007, 04:48:18 PM »
my advice for thin negatives is to print on grade 5 - if you think, it makes sense that a very thin negative is going to lack contrast, so head up the grades, not down - pick out your most important highlight and work out your exposure for this at grade 5, then inspect the work print, you will no doubt have to perform some clever dodging and burning to pick out what you can from it.  Printing at low grades will just soften what is already a very flat negative.

I wouldnt worry about using any negative intensifiers - they wont put detail where there isnt any on the neg, althoughit might add a little more zing to it.  I'd try the grade 5, then re shoot if it just isnt working.

for spilt grade to work well, you need a dense contrasty negative.

here what les mclean has to say about thin negs ....

"Split grade printing will not work when the negative is "thin" or low in contrast. The low contrast is partly due to under exposure and perhaps insufficient development. I have found the best way to print such a negative is to use grade 5 (maximum magenta on a colour head) only combined with careful control of time. Grade 5 gives maximum separation to the thin areas of a low contrast negative and careful timing enables you to give the precise exposure to achieve maximum black through the thinnest part of the negative."
L.

Francois

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Re: Thin Negatives
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2007, 08:12:26 PM »
I must say intensification is always to be used when there isn't anything that can be done with a negative.
It works better on underdeveloped negatives (if I remember).
It won't add image where there is none. It has a tendency to make the image somewhat grainy as the grain tends to clump together.
Printing on grade 5 is to be the first step, like Leon said. Intensification will make the negative more dense by adding metal to the weak image.
You do have to read carefully before choosing which intensifier to use as some work proportionally while others don't.
The cool thing about the process is that it can be done under normal light so you see exactly what you're doing. When it's dense enough for your taste, you just pull it out and follow the remainder of the process (fix and rinse if I remember). There is always a limit to how much more density you will get!

As for Negative Selenium intensification... this is a weird trick I heard works.
You know, then you tone a print in Selenium, it gets a bit darker... Well, it does the same thing to a negative (it is silver after all, just on transparent base instead of paper).
It makes the image more dense and stable.
But this is a trick... you could do a web search for it. But this is roughly what you'll find:
Quote
To intensify negatives that are lacking in contrast, first soak them in a wetting agent such as Kodak Photo-Flo or Fuji Driwel and then immerse them in Kodak rapid selenium toner diluted 1:4. The maximum toning effect is acquired after about six minutes. Then run the negatives through a clearing bath and wash them thoroughly.

If you're curious, you could always try it on a scrap negative. If it gives you the effect you're looking for, then you will know what to do if the same situation arises.

Good luck.
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

LT

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Re: Thin Negatives
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2007, 07:39:33 AM »
I must say intensification is always to be used when there isn't anything that can be done with a negative.

I find the darkroom bin is an immense help in this situation ;)
L.

bennyC

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Re: Thin Negatives
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2007, 02:31:16 PM »
Is that what they call "dry british wit"? LOL. I would bin this negative but ut has serious personal value. I'm going to try what Leon Taylor said. It deals with the print rather than the negative.

Thanks guys. I'll post the results if they're worth posting.

BennyC

LT

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Re: Thin Negatives
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2007, 07:23:54 PM »
Is that what they call "dry british wit"?

possibly, or more problaby a dry old english twit
I'm going to try what Leon Taylor said. It deals with the print rather than the negative.

Good luck with it bennyC - I think the key here is good test strip printing.  maybe use three sheets of paper or more just for test strips on important areas and spend as much time as you can with them so you can get the right times down for each area.
L.

Tammy

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Re: Thin Negatives
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2007, 04:04:44 PM »
I've been able to satisfactorily print a very thin negative using a VC paper and #5 filter in printing- just as Leon Taylor recommended.   If the blacks are still weak in the print, but you have some separations, you may be able to add some contrast to it with selenium toning at 1:10.

As it seems to be a personal keepsake, I hope it works for you.