Author Topic: First 4x5 (Read 5750 times)

Mojave · « **on:** January 08, 2011, 10:57:08 PM »

Well, I did it. Got a Crown Graphic off eBay for less than 200 USD. It was missing the ground glass and it took me a few days and about 4 sheets of film just to figure out how to use the rangefinder focus, but I finally figured it out. And just today I got past the missing ground glass by using a cut piece of Shrinkydink plastic with the Fresnel lens and viola! I got my rear viewing! And I figured out how to stitch the images together in PS so I dont even need a new scanner.

I did order some Eastman Kodak gg for 3 bucks and should get that soon but that Shrinkydink plastic works well enough. And I did get some pretty serious streaking on both images so I have to work on the developing a bit. Maybe I just need a larger tank and some smaller rubber bands.

Anyway, here is the first successful shot. Im too terribly happy with where the blur is now that I see the image on the screen vs in the camera back, but Im still pretty excited about it.

Oh yeah, and its an Optar lens, the film is HP5 and the developer HC110. I'll be watching out for an Ektar now.

LT · « **Reply #1 on:** January 08, 2011, 11:07:43 PM »

the blur looks great to me. nice.

Looks like you are onto a winner here. Really like the DOF and choice of focus.

HP5 is the BEST choice

And may I congratulate you on reminding me of shrinkydinks? I used to love them. they came free in cornflake cereal packets. I had a Scoobydoo one on my keyring for years that I shrinky-dinked when I was about 7 - and that was 33 years ago. I'd forgotten all about them

Mojave · « **Reply #2 on:** January 09, 2011, 12:51:54 AM »

LOL! Thank you so much Leon! You are looking at a shrinky-dink image right there.

You can find them online. I was surprised by how available they are still. I used to play with them as a kid. I loved watching them shrink, how they would curl up and look like they were dancing inside the oven. Such fun stuff!!!

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #3 on:** January 09, 2011, 12:58:04 AM »

yes indeed! Welcome to the wonderful (if slightly high maintenance) world of 5x4. We love you for taking the leap....and even more for the way you've done it. Superb improvisation and a splendid image to start things off with. Congrats!

BTW, don't forget you can use a 405 Pola back for 100 series instant film in LF cameras.

calbisu · « **Reply #4 on:** January 09, 2011, 01:52:03 AM »

Congrats Becky!!! Loooking great! You were brave to jump to LF territory, I have been thinking myself but still not into it...

moominsean · « **Reply #5 on:** January 09, 2011, 02:22:37 AM »

you'll want that ground glass back because it makes it easier to slide a pola back and film backs in, without having to deal with the clamps and all.

looks good, though! i'm still too lazy to set mine up on a tripod and mess with tilt shift. i've just been shooting handheld.

Mojave · « **Reply #6 on:** January 09, 2011, 02:36:37 AM »

Thanks everybody!!! I am very happy to be a part of the 5x4 world. Its so much fun! And when I had to use a blanket over my head to actually see the image and not just to look cool, I felt like a REAL photographer! LOL!

If I sell the buggy, I'll be getting one of those pola backs. I saw a few online and Im pretty sure the buggy is sold so yeah, pretty soon I'll be shooting Fuji on that camera. I cant wait!

Miller · « **Reply #7 on:** January 09, 2011, 08:56:46 AM »

Considering this is your first effort, well looks like I'm in for a treat this year.

p.s. Whenever a photographer friend comes to visit he always remarks.. "No 4x5 yet"....

Rgds

Mlr

Blaxton · « **Reply #8 on:** January 09, 2011, 10:09:45 AM »

Impressive beginning, Mohave, congrats. I get more enjoyment out of using my 4x5 cameras than any other. Like you say, the focusing cloth and all make for an intensely involving process. I have also an 8x10 camera but it's too expensive to use and so doesn't give as much pleasure. A 4x5 is big enough to make a strong contact print anyway.

Looking forward to seeing more LF work from you posted here.

johann · « **Reply #9 on:** January 09, 2011, 01:17:58 PM »

Congratulations, Mojave ! It looks awesome. I am really jealous now

I always wanted to dive into 4x5 myself. I think you're getting me closer to making the jump myself to LF.

I'm really looking forward to see some more LF work from you.

By the way, HP5 looks really good. I never cared too much for it in small and MF, but i might give it another try, or is it just good in LF ?

LT · « **Reply #10 on:** January 09, 2011, 01:25:04 PM »

Johann - try rating it at 200 (in any format) and develop in perceptol 1:2 - gorgeous. Or better still, get yourself some catechol based developer (like pyrocat HD, precyscol for example) and develop it in that - wonderful tones.

johann · « **Reply #11 on:** January 09, 2011, 02:09:04 PM »

Leon - Thanks for the tip ! Next time I stock up in film I'll get some HP5 and try it like you said.

Mojave - Have you tried different lenses on your camera ? I was wondering if it was easy to change lens boards on those cameras. I read that they are not really good for wide angle as you can not change the bellow.

Nigel · « **Reply #12 on:** January 09, 2011, 02:20:13 PM »

I've just come back from a Camera Fair where I spent rather too long looking longingly at a Crown Graphic myself! That's a lovely shot. Very jealous.....

Mojave · « **Reply #13 on:** January 09, 2011, 02:34:54 PM »

Thank you all so much!

Leon, if I rate the film at 200, do I have to push it or just use the developer as you mention it? And if I use the catechol developer, do I have to rate the film at 200? I have a hard time pushing or pulling. Did it once with some Scala that I developed into a negative and it just didnt look right.

Johann, I have not tried new lenses for it yet but hope to some day afford an Ektar lens that has a min ap of 2.5 or lower. To me it looks like it would be very easy to change out the lens board but I think its difficult to find the new infinity points for new lenses. Its very heavily math involved and I just dont do math. At all. I can tell somebody must have replaced the lens on this camera because there are pen and pencil marks and scratches on the rails where different infinity points were measured. But what I found online about setting up the infinity points scared me. Way too confusing.

And I suppose that is something to consider when it comes to getting one of these cameras and its something I didnt know anything about when I got this camera. I just got really lucky. I always get lucky with eBay. But if the camera cant be tested, you might end up getting one that hasnt been setup correctly for the lens it has. But that is just for the range finder. If you just use the gg, it wont matter.

I vote you jump in. No way to learn it without getting into it. I think its kind of like waiting for the perfect time to have a baby. If you wait for the perfect time, it will never come but if you just get pregnant, you find thats the perfect time!

LT · « **Reply #14 on:** January 09, 2011, 02:45:48 PM »

Quote from: Mojave on January 09, 2011, 02:34:54 PM

Leon, if I rate the film at 200, do I have to push it or just use the developer as you mention it? And if I use the catechol developer, do I have to rate the film at 200? I have a hard time pushing or pulling. Did it once with some Scala that I developed into a negative and it just didnt look right.

This is not about pushing and pulling - it's about finding the correct speed & time for the film & developer combination. Diluted Perceptol nearly always gives some speed loss with all films - usually up to about 1 stop. So the correct speed for HP5+ in perceptol 1:2 tends to be about 200 iso. You then need to decide on the development time I'd aim for between 13 and 15 minutes at 20 degrees depending on your techniques etc.

I find pyrocat HD speeds are usually about either on box iso or about 1/3 stop slower at 1:1:100 dilution and development times for me are a standard 14 minutes for any film.

Francois · « **Reply #15 on:** January 09, 2011, 03:18:32 PM »

Quote from: Mojave on January 09, 2011, 02:34:54 PM

Johann, I have not tried new lenses for it yet but hope to some day afford an Ektar lens that has a min ap of 2.5 or lower. To me it looks like it would be very easy to change out the lens board but I think its difficult to find the new infinity points for new lenses. Its very heavily math involved and I just dont do math. At all. I can tell somebody must have replaced the lens on this camera because there are pen and pencil marks and scratches on the rails where different infinity points were measured. But what I found online about setting up the infinity points scared me. Way too confusing.

Great first try!

You're lucky to have a working rangefinder. On mine, I'm missing the proper focusing cams so I have to use the ground glass.

Thing is, with the Crown, every lens they made for it came with what looks like a small triangular piece of metal with the focal length printed on it. It's located under the black cover that is located inside the camera itself. The cover is on a spring hinge and you need a flashlight to see inside while trying not to damage the bellows... it's a cramped space.

With other lenses, you'll have to use the ground glass...

Diane Peterson · « **Reply #16 on:** January 09, 2011, 04:01:37 PM »

Mojave...kudos to you for going ahead with your plans..I got both of my Crown Graphics off of ebay and love them both..paid close to what you did for mine! Can't wait to see your next images!

astrobeck · « **Reply #17 on:** January 09, 2011, 04:11:27 PM »

yay!

Looking great for a first outing, and I'm sure you will love it out in the desert!
Mine is a real trooper, so you will find it quite a sturdy worker outside.

Just watched "The Right Stuff" and most of the press folks had their Crowns doing the paparazzi thing with the astronauts. Made me think about how durable these cameras really are.

The pola back is a must and as Sean said get a proper ground glass so it will slide in the holder easier.

johann · « **Reply #18 on:** January 09, 2011, 04:37:58 PM »

Quote from: Mojave on January 09, 2011, 02:34:54 PM

I vote you jump in. No way to learn it without getting into it. I think its kind of like waiting for the perfect time to have a baby. If you wait for the perfect time, it will never come but if you just get pregnant, you find thats the perfect time!

Thanks for the encouragements ! I think I am also ready to have a baby now. I'll check ebay tonight, to find a good deal. For me it is mainly a question of finances. But if i can find one at the same rate as yours, i won't heistated.
Crown graphics have the focal plane shutter right ?

Phil Bebbington · « **Reply #19 on:** January 09, 2011, 05:18:48 PM »

Total respect, Erin and a great first shot!

Roger Thoms · « **Reply #20 on:** January 09, 2011, 07:29:09 PM »

Quote from: Francois on January 09, 2011, 03:18:32 PM

Quote from: Mojave on January 09, 2011, 02:34:54 PM
Johann, I have not tried new lenses for it yet but hope to some day afford an Ektar lens that has a min ap of 2.5 or lower. To me it looks like it would be very easy to change out the lens board but I think its difficult to find the new infinity points for new lenses. Its very heavily math involved and I just dont do math. At all. I can tell somebody must have replaced the lens on this camera because there are pen and pencil marks and scratches on the rails where different infinity points were measured. But what I found online about setting up the infinity points scared me. Way too confusing.

You're lucky to have a working rangefinder. On mine, I'm missing the proper focusing cams so I have to use the ground glass.

Thing is, with the Crown, every lens they made for it came with what looks like a small triangular piece of metal with the focal length printed on it. It's located under the black cover that is located inside the camera itself. The cover is on a spring hinge and you need a flashlight to see inside while trying not to damage the bellows... it's a cramped space.

With other lenses, you'll have to use the ground glass...

Congrats on your new Crown Graphic, I have a Speed Graphic and really like it. Here's a link to a website that has a ton of info on Graflex cameras. http://graflex.org/

As far as your rangefinder if you have the sidemount Kalart there are no focusing cams. There is a rod that is adjustable. The top mounted rangefinder used on later models have focusing cams that have to match the lens being used.

As far as adjusting the infinity stops you don't need any math. "With the rails adjusted to the rear of the bed, and the lens focused on infinity, you may set the infinity stops for each particular lens." (from the Graflex site)

Roger

Francois · « **Reply #21 on:** January 09, 2011, 08:35:54 PM »

Quote from: johann on January 09, 2011, 04:37:58 PM

Crown graphics have the focal plane shutter right ?

No focal plane shutter on the Crown Graphic. That's why it's much lighter, much cheaper and more reliable than the Speed Graphic

Besides, if you strip the ugly cracked black leather, you'll find that the entire body is made of mahogany over steel...

Blaxton · « **Reply #22 on:** January 09, 2011, 09:23:03 PM »

Quote from: Francois on January 09, 2011, 08:35:54 PM

Quote from: johann on January 09, 2011, 04:37:58 PM
Crown graphics have the focal plane shutter right ?
if you strip the ugly cracked black leather, you'll find that the entire body is made of mahogany over steel...

I can't remember where but I remember reading about someone who specialized in doing just this. The photos of his refurbished Crown Graphics looked as beautiful as designer field cameras--less functional than a Canham, to be sure but, in a humble, Rochester, NY kind of way, every bit as beautiful.

My own attempts at modifying a Crown Graphic resulted in a much less handsome camera. I simply removed the rangefinder (side-mounted) and covered the exposed areas with Gaffer's tape. Homely though it may be, I like my Crown for it's sleeker look and lighter weight. There's no way of knowing now but I doubt that I would have gotten much use out of the range finder anyway. I use three different length lenses all the time. Adjusting the rangefinder in the field to accommodate isn't practical. With the price sheet film being what it is (and it's going up), I would rather focus with a loupe on a ground glass or, in a pinch, rely on hyperfocal distance and depth of field.

Francois, you have thinking. Maybe I should procure another Crown Graphic and strip it down to the mahogany and metal...

Francois · « **Reply #23 on:** January 09, 2011, 10:14:51 PM »

Or you could make a "space age" one and cover yours entirely with aluminum duck tape

fbf · « **Reply #24 on:** January 09, 2011, 10:53:27 PM »

same here. As soon as i got the camera, I removed the rangefinder, viewfinder. I shot a pack of fp100c 45 through with 150 sinaron-s. I am very impressed. The crown graphic is very fun to use.

sapata · « **Reply #25 on:** January 09, 2011, 11:18:23 PM »

Congratulations for the camera... and your first shot is really great!
Looking foward to see more...

original_ann · « **Reply #26 on:** January 09, 2011, 11:28:23 PM »

Totally awesome Erin! This is so not a first timer's shot, you have skills! Welcome to 4x5

Miles · « **Reply #27 on:** January 10, 2011, 01:04:03 AM »

Agreed, It's topper. Speaking of which you'll need to buy a Stove Pipe hat now too.

Mojave · « **Reply #28 on:** January 10, 2011, 04:44:42 AM »

Thank you so much Leon! I think I'll try the Perceptol first, and I cant believe I understood all that!

Thank you so much Francois! I did get really lucky with that rangefinder, but I have found myself using the gg all the time now.

Thank you so much Diane! You have two cameras? Thats awesome!

Thank you very much AstroBeck! Now I want to see that movie to see all the cams, and Im already checking out eBay for those backs.

Johann, glad I could talk you into having a baby and getting into large format.

Thank you so much Phil!

Thank you very much RTbadman! That is most definitely a great site. I learned how to use the camera from that site.

Thank you so much Sapata! Was out shooting today. I hope I got some good ones!

Thank you so much Ann! I cant wait to shoot some color Fuji!

Thank you so much Miles! What is a stove pipe hat?

Miles · « **Reply #29 on:** January 10, 2011, 09:55:44 AM »

http://www.blogcdn.com/blog.moviefone.com/media/2010/02/gangs1.jpg

Mojave · « **Reply #30 on:** January 10, 2011, 02:02:04 PM »

LOL! Thats awesome!

gregor · « **Reply #31 on:** January 12, 2011, 01:16:45 AM »

awesome 1st go with the 4x5 ! waiting to see more ;-)

Mojave · « **Reply #32 on:** January 12, 2011, 04:06:00 AM »

Thank you so much Gregor! Sold the buggy so Im off to find a pola back!

gregor · « **Reply #33 on:** January 12, 2011, 05:30:42 AM »

Since polaroid sheet film has gone through the roof price wise, you might want to get the polaroid 405 back and shoot fuji peel apart or the fuji back for their 4x5 peel apart. The polaroid 550 back works with fuji 4x5 but is harder to find...

Mojave · « **Reply #34 on:** January 12, 2011, 05:58:38 AM »

And more expensive too! I followed Eds advice and got a 405. Im excited to shoot some color LF!!!

johann · « **Reply #35 on:** January 12, 2011, 01:49:00 PM »

I'm sorry if i deviate the original thread, but i have a question about the crown graphic.
I am about the buy one online, and am wondering if i can insert the film holder in portrait orientation while having the camera upright or if the graflok back has some kind of revolving mechanism. Or do you have to rotate the entire camera ? I'm not sure the my current tripod head would sustain the weight of the camera in mid-air.

Mojave · « **Reply #36 on:** January 12, 2011, 02:01:44 PM »

Yay!!! I cant wait to see your pix too Johann!

I wondered the same thing before I got my camera but my camera has two tripod holes, one for landscape and the other for portrait. I have to undo the little leather handstrap on the side to attach the tripod mounting piece, which is kind of a pain but oh well, and that is how it works in portrait mode. So no swinging of that tripod head unit.

After doing some reading, I found out that some of the older Graflex cameras had rotating backs, but I think those must be kind of rare.

johann · « **Reply #37 on:** January 12, 2011, 03:12:19 PM »

Thanks Mojave ! I can't wait either

Thanks for the info, I didn't know about the second tripod socket. It's like on my 600SE. That's good to know.

Author Topic: First 4x5 (Read 5750 times)

astrobeck