Author Topic: Introducing a new service for photographers  (Read 2854 times)

Artsyken

  • 120
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • Artsyken.com
Introducing a new service for photographers
« on: December 02, 2010, 11:53:23 AM »
Long time no speak all. Just wanted to invite some of the Filmwasters people to an closed beta test on a new free service I've been working on for the last few months.

As you all probably experienced first hand, the photo business is not really in the best shape right now. In a recent survey called "Industry Survey of Photographers 2010" by the British Photographic Council, 74% of the surveyed professional photographers felt threatened by amateur photographers, because they charge less or worked even for "photo credits".

In the USA, the median annual wages of salaried photographers were $29,440 dollar in 2008. It never looked better to become a plumber than being a photographer, because clients don't expect plumbers to work for free.

My partner Juergen (The founder of D1scussion and OpenRAW) and myself thought very long about all this and started in July the work on a new service we call "Shakodo". In a nutshell, Shakodo is an advanced Question and Answer service with the main focus on pricing evaluation for photographic services.

In our experience, most photographers just don't know how to price their services. Some photographers resort to tricks to send fake requests to other photographers to find out what they charge, but since prices are all kept kinda secret, there is an incredible insecurity out there when it comes to pricing of photos or photographic services.

We must have reviewed just about every price guide or business web site out there, but if it comes to exact prices, they all become also very vague.

Shakodo, with the tagline "the road to profitable photography", wants to be a new tool for photographers, a new community which focuses on pricing only. You can ask questions and "people in the know" (which can be YOU) can give answers with exact price ranges to help another photographer to nail a price for licensing, assignments or anything in between.

Why would somebody share a price with somebody else? Easy, take this scenario:

Professional Photographer A lands a magazine licensing job and gets XXX amount of money. Never tells anybody how much. Amateur Photographer B uploads a fantastic photo to Flickr, gets discovered by the same magazine, which offers "Photo Credits" as payment for a license. B is flattered and agrees.

A never can get the same rates again, because B undercut him for a picture which is also fantastic. B got screwed by not knowing that magazines have budgets (gasp!) and would have happily paid at least XX if B would even have known.

The result: Its as much as A's fault for not sharing how much money you for example could have made, as it is B's fault for leaving money on the table and screwing the market.

The gist of my little example here: Knowledge can turn 100% into money. Sharing of knowledge can do the very same.

Based on this simple principle, I like to invite you to have a look at Shakodo, which we will reveal to the public in about 7 days from now:

http://www.shakodo.com/

Username: shakodo
Password: aliveco

Please don't share this access information in public yet, because we are still in beta and still fix some things. But you all have the opportunity to have a look, register (if you see value in it) and make up your own mind if Shakodo can be useful for your own business.

With this said, I hope you all join us on "the road to profitable photography".

Thanks,

Ken
It's later than you think.  Enjoy life...

Skorj

  • Global Moderator
  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,901
  • the black cat
    • Filmwasters.com
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2010, 12:18:15 AM »
Thanks Ken, I've registered and will continue to have a good look around! Looks like a concept with great potential. Skj.

jojonas~

  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,928
  • back at 63° 49′ 32″ N
    • jojonas @ flickr
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2010, 07:42:36 AM »
I've taken the time to register aswell, this could really be usefull! I don't want to be the noob that drives down the prices :/
But I wonder how international pricing is.. I live in Sweden btw.
/jonas

Heather

  • Sheet Film
  • ****
  • Posts: 599
    • Stargazy Photography
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2010, 07:49:41 AM »
Neat. I currently go by NUJ's freelance rates page which they've improved with their personal ratings on if the price paid to the individual for the work done was too low or surprisingly good
http://www.londonfreelance.org/rates/ (there is a section for photography but, as everything, it depends on end useage). It was extremely helpful for finding out the going rates for the image a website stole from me and helpfully they dated the website they used it on too so i had an exact idea of how long it had been up there for.
Heather
ooh shiny things!
http://www.stargazy.org/

Urban Hafner

  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,545
    • Urban Hafner
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2010, 08:15:12 AM »
Great to see the stackoverflow idea spread to non-technical fields, too. I'm not sure I'll ever need to use a service like this, but I'll watch closely nonetheless.

Urban

Artsyken

  • 120
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • Artsyken.com
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2010, 08:43:21 AM »
I've taken the time to register aswell, this could really be usefull! I don't want to be the noob that drives down the prices :/
But I wonder how international pricing is.. I live in Sweden btw.


Thanks Jojanas!  Post a question and find out! If no one knows, why not become the expert on prices in Sweden!!
It's later than you think.  Enjoy life...

Artsyken

  • 120
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • Artsyken.com
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2010, 08:45:30 AM »
Neat. I currently go by NUJ's freelance rates page which they've improved with their personal ratings on if the price paid to the individual for the work done was too low or surprisingly good
http://www.londonfreelance.org/rates/ (there is a section for photography but, as everything, it depends on end useage). It was extremely helpful for finding out the going rates for the image a website stole from me and helpfully they dated the website they used it on too so i had an exact idea of how long it had been up there for.

Hi Heather! Yeah.  There are a lot of great resources out there.  We want to become an important "tool" in every photographer's camera bag!
It's later than you think.  Enjoy life...

Artsyken

  • 120
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • Artsyken.com
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2010, 08:46:27 AM »
Great to see the stackoverflow idea spread to non-technical fields, too. I'm not sure I'll ever need to use a service like this, but I'll watch closely nonetheless.

Urban


Thanks Urban!  Stackoverflow is great and used by us a lot! 
It's later than you think.  Enjoy life...

Artsyken

  • 120
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • Artsyken.com
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2010, 08:46:52 AM »
Thanks Ken, I've registered and will continue to have a good look around! Looks like a concept with great potential. Skj.

Thanks for the support Mark!
It's later than you think.  Enjoy life...

Ed Wenn

  • Global Moderator
  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,300
  • Slowly getting back into it. Sometimes.
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2010, 12:19:03 PM »
Good work, Ken. I can see the value of this straightaway. A few years ago I was approached by an Australian ad agency who wanted to use a photo of mine which they'd seen on my old photo blog. They'd mentioned the eventual customer was a bank and that the ad would run in the national press so I decided I should get paid for my troubles. Here I ran into problems because I'd never had any photos published in this way before and certainly not in Australia.

Lucky for me our very good friend, Don Brice, is a pro-snapper of long-standing in that very same country and he kindly told me how much to charge and passed on some other tips about how things should proceed. The figure he proposed was higher than I'd have suggested myself, but the agency paid without so much as a whimper.

The logic was exactly as Ken spelt out in his post above; on one hand Don helped me with a nice little cash windfall and educated me in how to deal with agencies. He also ensured that the correct rate was paid for a piece of advertising, thus ensuring that the next photographer who dealt with that agency would get paid properly too.

Artsyken

  • 120
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • Artsyken.com
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2010, 04:12:29 PM »
The logic was exactly as Ken spelt out in his post above; on one hand Don helped me with a nice little cash windfall and educated me in how to deal with agencies. He also ensured that the correct rate was paid for a piece of advertising, thus ensuring that the next photographer who dealt with that agency would get paid properly too.

Hi Ed - You got it!  A little education goes a long way and that's our focus. 
It's later than you think.  Enjoy life...

moominsean

  • Global Moderator
  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,173
  • Living in camera shadows.
    • moominstuff
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2010, 04:21:55 PM »
I see this as being particularly useful nowadays when publishers and advertisers feel as though artists and photographers should be willing to give them a product for free or very very little money, and that artists/photographers should feel honored that they have been selected by these agencies. I make no effort to sell my work, but I've been approached more than once by a company wishing to use my work in an ad or product, with my only payment being credit given somewhere on the product. No thanks! People seem to think that they will get exposure by doing so, but money and exposure is a better deal for the photographer, particularly when the agency is making money using your work.

And with big companies pushing for nonsense like zero copyright control for small artists (while maintaining copyright for all of their own properties, of course), allowing them to use anything they find on the Internet for free, support for small artists and photographers is doubly important.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 04:25:12 PM by moominsean »
"A world without Polaroid is a terrible place."
                                                                  - John Waters

sapata

  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,079
  • "I want to be plastic" Andy Warhol
    • Personal Site
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2010, 07:21:41 PM »
Just registered myself.

This seems to be a really useful tool ! I never sold/license any of my work (apart from blurb...) but could help a lot if that day comes  ;)
Mauricio Sapata
@mauriciosapata
mauriciosapata.com

Artsyken

  • 120
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • Artsyken.com
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2010, 11:30:00 PM »
And with big companies pushing for nonsense like zero copyright control for small artists (while maintaining copyright for all of their own properties, of course), allowing them to use anything they find on the Internet for free, support for small artists and photographers is doubly important.

Another good example Sean.  Thanks for registering and the support to the cause!
It's later than you think.  Enjoy life...

Artsyken

  • 120
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • Artsyken.com
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2010, 11:32:43 PM »
Just registered myself.

This seems to be a really useful tool ! I never sold/license any of my work (apart from blurb...) but could help a lot if that day comes  ;)

Thanks Mauricio!  I am sure that the time will come for all of us at Filmwasters!!
It's later than you think.  Enjoy life...

Phil Bebbington

  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,568
    • Phil Bebbington
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2010, 03:13:54 PM »
Excellent, Ken.

Great tool and  I really like the interface - top job!

Artsyken

  • 120
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • Artsyken.com
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2010, 12:53:32 PM »
Excellent, Ken.

Great tool and  I really like the interface - top job!

Thanks Phil!  Glad you like.  The beta is coming to a close soon.  Getting ready for go live!  Will inform everyone when we're up and ready!
It's later than you think.  Enjoy life...

Artsyken

  • 120
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • Artsyken.com
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2010, 11:50:02 PM »
Ok. Today Shakodo went live!

http://www.shakodo.com


Take a look and hope you find it useful!

Thanks again to everyone who helped out with the beta testing!

Cheers,

Ken
It's later than you think.  Enjoy life...

sapata

  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,079
  • "I want to be plastic" Andy Warhol
    • Personal Site
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2010, 12:00:16 AM »
Ok. Today Shakodo went live!

http://www.shakodo.com


Take a look and hope you find it useful!

Thanks again to everyone who helped out with the beta testing!

Cheers,

Ken
You're welcome Ken...
The page is looking good indeed ! ;)
Mauricio Sapata
@mauriciosapata
mauriciosapata.com

Suzi Livingstone

  • Sheet Film
  • ****
  • Posts: 771
    • Suzi Livingstone Photography
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2010, 09:03:25 AM »
Looks good, I just registered, will try and find time to take a look around the site a bit later..  :)

original_ann

  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,276
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2010, 11:48:57 AM »
Ditto what Suzi said!  This is a fantastic concept - thanks Artsyken!

Artsyken

  • 120
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • Artsyken.com
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2010, 06:40:03 AM »
Thanks Suzi and Ann!  It's been a little over 24 hours and it's been crazy!  Lots of good information!  Very happy!
It's later than you think.  Enjoy life...

Artsyken

  • 120
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • Artsyken.com
Re: Introducing a new service for photographers
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2010, 03:01:24 PM »
Just an update.  It's been 4 days since we opened to the public and the response has been overwhelming!

Here are just a few things we've noticed:

# We are very happy to see a high number of female photographers registered.
# We have members from 45 countries.
# Positive feedback 99%.
# Negative feedback 1% - mostly because people have the wrong perception of what we are doing.

To read the complete review:
http://www.shakodo.com/blog/33/first-review-were-4-days-old-and-going-strong/

It's later than you think.  Enjoy life...