Author Topic: Back to the darkroom (Read 4198 times)

choppert · « **on:** February 08, 2010, 07:35:45 PM »

Hey guys,

Back into the darkroom since school in the early 90s.

Bloody hell! Hard work isn't it? Five hours in there and came out practically suicidal, ready to sell everything and go digital!
I got a couple of ok prints done, and some contact sheets. But I think I was trying to do too much. Presumably I should take one neg and have different goes at printing it and then see what the results are? Anyone know of a good resource for beginners?
I probably should have stuck to just one enlarger too, rather than the four I used!!!!

Panic over. Time to breathe again!

Chops

sausage100uk · « **Reply #1 on:** February 08, 2010, 08:06:27 PM »

The more variables you introduce the less sucess you will have.

IMHO use one lens, one enlarger, one format and one paper until you get the basics cracked. the first time you get a decent print all thoughts of the D word will be gone forever....

Look up some les Maclean stuff for great advice on printing, including preflashing and split grade (not as tricky as they sound).

I really need to get back into my dark room this spring.

snewbery · « **Reply #2 on:** February 08, 2010, 08:10:53 PM »

When I was getting into darkroom work seriously, I used John Schaefer's excellent The Ansel Adams Guide: Basic Techniques of Photography (Book 1)---it's the series that updates the Ansel Adams classics for modern films and papers. You can easily find reasonably priced used copies...

You might also be interested in reading On printing and why there in no such thing as a difficult negative to print at http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/onprinting.html.

Darkroom work requires patience, definitely. It may take you a while to get your 'sea legs' back. It's work that I love, and the process of getting to know a negative is still something I relish.

LT · « **Reply #3 on:** February 08, 2010, 08:28:35 PM »

pm sent

Karl · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2010, 08:50:02 PM »

I only started using a darkroom a few years ago and only go around 10 times a year but I I did a wee course in printing which was very useful to get things going. The best book I have is the Master Printers Black and White Workbook by Steve McLeod and my best generic photo resource book is Photography by London/Upton/Kobre/Brill (Prentice Hall publishing). All you need to know illustrated with really great photos.

I really feel for you. Even now I f*** things up good an proper but please stick at it. There is nothing quite as magical as seeing your image rise up from the white paper and the sensory experience of making your own prints is second to none.

Digital shmigital. As I heard someone say the other day, "the other man's grass may always seem greener but it still needs mowing".

gregor · « **Reply #5 on:** February 09, 2010, 01:23:58 AM »

You didn't indicate if your printing color or b&w? B&W is more expensive per sheet, but you blow through a lot of paper printing color.

I've been in the darkroom about 15 hours a week lately, c-printing. I've even taken to occasionally c-printing b&w negs in the color darkroom.

But the advice, one format, one film type, one paper is good. In public darkrooms, problems arrise when the chemistry changes: what worked yesterday may not today...

Good luck & have fun - it's a lot more rewarding than giclee prints !

moominsean · « **Reply #6 on:** February 09, 2010, 02:27:43 AM »

i'd like to start printing again, but i know the one thing that would drive me bonkers would be dust control. gotten very used to being able to photoshop out spots.

Francois · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2010, 06:09:00 PM »

Quote from: moominsean on February 09, 2010, 02:27:43 AM

i'd like to start printing again, but i know the one thing that would drive me bonkers would be dust control. gotten very used to being able to photoshop out spots.

That's why I keep my enlargers in dustproof zippered bags like the ones used to store business suits.

original_ann · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2010, 08:09:16 PM »

Francois, that's a great idea!

Gregor - I've always wondered what the heck a "C-Print" was. Please explain...

Francois · « **Reply #9 on:** February 09, 2010, 10:16:01 PM »

A C-Print is just a Color-Print. Usually done using the RA-4 process which is standard for color paper.

Though saying it's a C-Print makes it sound so much better

reiki_ · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2010, 01:55:39 PM »

anyone here has experience with developing in changing bags? i would buy one , but i'm kinda clumsy so I'm afraid I couldn't maneuver in such a small space.

choppert · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2010, 02:24:29 PM »

I bought one and couldn't even get my arms in it!

I'm sure I would find them too restrictive, I struggle to load one film in a 10'x4' dark toilet!

Francois · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2010, 03:41:17 PM »

I had a changing bag... and used it so I do have a whole bunch of recommendations on the subject!
If you choose one, take the model with a tent like design or don't get any at all.
I had the flat model. If you have to use it to open a camera back, the fabric drapes over your hands and you're always afraid to break the camera.
If you use it to load film, you have to be extra careful not to cut through the bag with the scissors. And when loading film on a reel, you have to find a way to keep the fabric from hindering the process... which it will do. You have to put a lot of effort just to prevent the bag from sagging. and when you push the top up, the bottom tends to pucker... extremely annoying.
Also, mine had very tight wrist bands when I first got it. But the wrists were quite short and the slightest move could cause the rubber bands to slip down my arms possibly letting light in.
I got mine used and didn't pay much for it, so it wasn't too painful to leave it on the shelf. Last time I went to use it, the nylon outer shell which is covered with a light-tight black rubbery substance was starting to disintegrate. This made me totally loose faith since it was leaving black dandruff everywhere, including inside the inner bag... Just overly annoying.

LT · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2010, 04:19:18 PM »

i use a flat type to load films and darkslides - absolutely no issue with it whatsoever. It's served me well for 10 years.

maybe one concern ... in the summer, when it is hot and steamy, the bag gets really humid when using it especially if you suffer with sweaty mitts, making it even more vital to ensure the film is cool before handling

gregor · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2010, 04:22:25 PM »

Quote from: original_ann on February 09, 2010, 08:09:16 PM

Gregor - I've always wondered what the heck a "C-Print" was. Please explain...

Anne: a c-print is a chromogenic color print in R4-A chemistry. When c-printing you use an enlarger's color pack (cyan, yellow, magenta) to separate and balance colors. From the enlarger you then run it through a processor that develops, washes and fixes. from there you have your finished print, or a print from which to further refine the image.

Seemingly simple, there's a lot of subtleties to consider when changing the color pack's settings, which is the only tool you have in c-printing (other than dodging, burning, spotting & bleaching).

There is the range to make fine art prints as well as to print as accurately as possible a representation of what you saw you took a shot, depending on your objectives with the print.

Francois · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2010, 10:13:45 PM »

Quote from: leon taylor on February 10, 2010, 04:19:18 PM

i use a flat type to load films and darkslides - absolutely no issue with it whatsoever. It's served me well for 10 years.

maybe one concern ... in the summer, when it is hot and steamy, the bag gets really humid when using it especially if you suffer with sweaty mitts, making it even more vital to ensure the film is cool before handling

I guess that's probably the best use for it...
my changing bag is... oh, well... probably close to 30 years old. Not wonder it's disintegrating!

(If I could just borrow the Marvin Martian Re-integrating ray...)

But on the upside, I got it at a company sale in the early 90's for 2$... super cheap.

choppert · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2010, 10:35:56 AM »

Woohoo!

I'd left my prints to dry in the public darkroom.
Mrs Chops managed to pop in yesterday and pick the prints up.

Now they are dry, and in daylight, they look really quite good! (Given a first attempt!)

The contact sheets make the negatives look soooooo much better than trying to interpret them by looking at the negs through a lupe.

Can't wait to get back in there!

Chops

LT · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2010, 12:11:06 PM »

Quote from: choppert on February 13, 2010, 10:35:56 AM

.

Can't wait to get back in there!

Chops

that's the spirit

kouryo · « **Reply #18 on:** February 13, 2010, 09:39:10 PM »

Interesting ... just creating my own darkroom too

choppert · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2010, 01:00:03 PM »

Back in the darkroom last Monday.

Quick question regarding split-grade printing. The enlarger I used has a drawer with a glass slide in which is used for putting the filters in.

1) The guy there said the opaque glass is equivalent to 2.5. I presume that I was right in removing this when wanting to use a filter of different grade? (just having the plastic filter in the drawer).

2) When printing I tried 10s at grade 1 and 10s at grade 4 (to see what it would look like). The drawer is fairly stiff and the paper/head had moved slightly between exposures. How do I stop the movement?

Chops

LT · « **Reply #20 on:** February 17, 2010, 01:44:53 PM »

Quote

1) The guy there said the opaque glass is equivalent to 2.5. I presume that I was right in removing this when wanting to use a filter of different grade? (just having the plastic filter in the drawer).

That "slide" is to add a slight diffusion to the process (I'm guessing they are meopta enlargers?). It helps to diffuse the light going through to the neg and should be a bit (only lsightly) beneficial as far as helping with neg flaws/ dust etc ... but it may be deleterious if you are looking for optimum sharpness - but it really does only have a slight effect.

It wasnt really helpful to say that slide is the equivalent of grade 2.5. the bare light is roughly equivalent to a middle grade contrast - the slide has nothing to do with it. If I were you I'd leave the glass in and use the filters - even the grade 2.5. The main reason for this is, provided you arent wandering into the 4 & 5 contrast range, you can just about work out your exposure for the highlights on the print, and keep this time constant whilst changing contrast grades to work out the shadows - so opposite to film, expose the paper for the highlights and adjust grade for the shadows. If you are using no filter for mid-contrst (2 ish) then you cant use this method - as when using film, the filters add a filter factor to the exposure so the filterless exposure will always be shorter than one with a filter. In short, if you are going to use filters and MG papers, always use the filters to make life easier.

Quote

2) When printing I tried 10s at grade 1 and 10s at grade 4 (to see what it would look like). The drawer is fairly stiff and the paper/head had moved slightly between exposures. How do I stop the movement?

use a stable enlarger - there's not a lot else that can be said. If you are making changes to the enlarger head halfway through an exposure, you have to be certain that the head wont move. An enlarger without a stable head really isn't suitable to do this.

hope that helps.

L

Francois · « **Reply #21 on:** February 17, 2010, 03:00:40 PM »

Quote from: choppert on February 17, 2010, 01:00:03 PM

1) The guy there said the opaque glass is equivalent to 2.5. I presume that I was right in removing this when wanting to use a filter of different grade? (just having the plastic filter in the drawer).

I would be more tempted to think he wasn't thinking about grades but more about filter factors: 2.5 times the exposure when compared to no glass.