Topic: crits and discussion please

[db]

It's far from ideal posting a whole selection like this.

When you see more than one image from a scene, it hammers home the fact the the scenario is staged, which immediately kills off your gut emotional response. I mean, imagine finding a proof sheet from Capa's 'Falling Soldier'. And in this case the emotional response is more important than the technical.

So try and put all that aside. With your help I need just the one frame to carry a story.




[Sorry, image deleted during forum software upgrade. Please re-upload if so inclined.]

[Skorj]

For me, the first is nicest to look at, but the last carries more story. The torn stocking for example...

(Incidentally, someone does have Death of a Loyalist Soldier on a multi-shot proof sheet. Supposedly anyway. But, I am sure you know that.)

Skj.

[hookstrapped]

I really like the second one.  The clothes in focus on the bed raises a question, then the somewhat ghostly image of the person by the window turns the question very evocatively.  Dunno if I'm making sense but for me, the second one is quite powerful.

[lauraburlton]

I think it depends on the goal. They are all nice images, but for some reason the top two I am thinking that this is an older woman contemplating life and where it has gone for her.

The 3rd, she definitely seems younger, maybe regretting a tryst the morning after.

The 4th looks like she just came home after said tryst and is wondering what direction she is going in her life. Like where do i go from here.

They all seem rather thoughtful and a bit sadd to me for some reason, but that is just my story. if you told me a narrative, I am sure I could see something else in it

[Ken B: eyes, I just do eyes.]

Okay number 4, simply put it is tight and I stay with the story and am compelled to wonder what the primary event is.

1, 2 and 3 are good but a bit loose for a single frame story.

cheers

[Ken B: eyes, I just do eyes.]

a second look says 3 is nearly as tight as 4.

1 and 2 are very similar and don't create an urge to wonder so much.

cheers

[LT]

I'd opt for 4 also.  It is quite ambiguous - the story could go either way, but that is what I like in a picture, something that makes me think and come up with my own interpretation.

[gregor]

The second works best for me.  

The woman, while certainly key to the story, is not the focal point of this image. Rather, the sweet spot of the items on the bed kick off a narrative that the other images don't have, which is supported by the woman's  posture & position in the composition - giving the image a visual round trip and keeping the viewer involved in that narrative.  

I'll add that 3 & 4 look a little too staged, whereas 1 & 2 don't looked composed - 1 & 2 are more of a 'scene' of this person's life.

My 2 cents - hope it helps.

[gothamtomato]

I like the contemplation in 1 and 2. Kind-of Hopperesque.

[hookstrapped]

The second works best for me.  

The woman, while certainly key to the story, is not the focal point of this image. Rather, the sweet spot of the items on the bed kick off a narrative that the other images don't have, which is supported by the woman's  posture & position in the composition - giving the image a visual round trip and keeping the viewer involved in that narrative.  

I'll add that 3 & 4 look a little too staged, whereas 1 & 2 don't looked composed - 1 & 2 are more of a 'scene' of this person's life.

My 2 cents - hope it helps.

What I was trying to say!

[db]

Wow thoughtful responses, thanks

On my first sweep of the contact sheets I'd ticked #1, but then allowed myself to look at other possibilities, and finished up with the 4.  Hookstrapped(and gregor)-  I also like the way the 2nd frame makes more of the bed, and then you turn your attention to the woman only after you've taken in the foreground details.
But #2 loses the nice triangular touch between head, bed-lamp and clothes that makes the first one enjoyable. And a friend commented that it looks like she is about to rise from the bed, which damages the restful contemplation effect. hmmm tough call.

Laura- yes, you're right. I think each tells the story a different way, and the way truth so often depends on perspective of the story teller,  I'm looking for the one that gives the most wriggle room for the story re-teller (viewer) rather than have me dictate the final outcome.

This is why I have trouble with #4, which is more directive - Like Ken said, I think  it sticks to the script.  So I was interested that Leon you find this one ambiguous?

Interestingly #4 is closest to my pre-visualization. But after the event I'm drawn to the space in the picture telling the story more than the main prop of the laddered stocking. #4 is feeling too tightly cropped now..

If there IS a main story, as Laura suggested,  for me it's about the unresolved sadnesses we all feel from time to time, rather than the specifics of this woman's 'morning after'.

I love this forum for this kind of thing!

[db]

Death of a Loyalist Soldier [/i]on a multi-shot proof sheet. Supposedly anyway. But, I am sure you know that.)

Hey Skorj, Was that the tasty mexican suitcase story?
I know I've seen parallel frames of other soldiers dying in the same way, in the same location, but I think the ambiguity lies in that the film strip was chopped up after processing, so different negs could be sent to different publications? So a definitive 'roll of film' doesn't exist as far as I know.

The images of proofs that I have seen were all excerpts from his visual notebooks which were assembled from individual contact prints stuck into a diary or a catalogue of his work.

Personally, I'm in the ''faker'' camp 

[gregor]

interesting comment by your friend. in #2.  I see her as slumping down, not getting up: resigned, exhausted - that's up to individual interpretation. But what happens to my visual read is the woman, items on bed and chest of drawers & lamp pull me into a kind of pendulum movement and almost enough to swing me over into a full circular reading.

that's just me ;-)

[Skorj]

> Personally, I'm in the ''faker'' camp 

Me too. The Mexican Suitcase supposedly having the same hill with numerous alternate photographs of varying subjects and multiple depressions in the grass where they had 'fallen'. Does not diminish the impact, merely the story as for me, the message is the same.

[db]

Oww... Leunig sure can bite huh?

To be honest it does make a difference to me.

We see so much staged death in many forms of media these days, that we switch off to the grizzly reality very quickly. And if the photo is staged, then it's just another piece of fiction, no matter how gruesome the the reality of war might be.

I just stirred the great soup of the www and this reference floated to the surface
http://museum.icp.org/mexican_suitcase/story.html

All interesting stuff..