Author Topic: A little printing collaboration.  (Read 2930 times)

eddie

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A little printing collaboration.
« on: December 09, 2007, 11:41:59 PM »
This is an image I have just added to my blog.  I have had one attempt at printing it,  I tried lith but was not too happy with the result.  As you can see most of the tones are quite dark in the image and i think separating then is the key.

How would other filmwasters print this image.


db

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Re: A little printing collaboration.
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2007, 01:13:21 AM »
whew that's a tough call.

The image would come to life if you could separate the subject (two trees plus ladder) from the remainder of the background. The textures under the trees are nice too.

First idea. Print it much light, bright and lower contrast. Often it's small dark shadows that increase the complexity in a print, and trees and gardens have heaps of busy shapes in B/W. Keeping the shadows open could simplify things and give it a gentle bucolic mood. Downside- low contrast prints can lose their impact.. it may just look like mush.

Second idea. (complete opposite approach) Stay with the lith or high contrast to get strong shapes in the two trunks and ladder, plus a zone around the base of the trees. Heavily dodging back the edges could lighten the overall impact, and create a pool of detail under the trees. Then after printing, selectively bleach back the unwanted background details with dilute bleach rubbed on with cotton balls, then finish the print in a hint of sepia toner which blends the bleached areas in to the overall. You could try this on your existing prints too..

giving advice is easy when you don't have to follow through on it yourself!

seekingfocus

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Re: A little printing collaboration.
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2007, 02:16:49 AM »
I might try a 'split-filter' type approach:

Make a test strip on multi grade paper using a "0" or "1" filter. Select an adequate exposure from the test strip (just a bit more than emergence, to show details in highlights) and expose a new full sheep for that time. Then, leaving the paper and negative in place, change to the "5" filter and make a set of text exposures on top of the previously exposed paper. Develop this test print and you should find an area of nice exposure of the highlights (nice details) while still getting the contrast you might want in such an image. You can also use this to selectively dodge and burn areas that you'd like to have higher or lower contrast (eg. Dodge during #5 exposure to decrease local contrast, or burn afterward with #5 to increase local contrast).

Side note: The high contrast image that you are presenting here works fairly well as is for me, though is perhaps a bit dark overall. It's definitely got potential, so I'm curious to see what comes of it and what technique you might be able to use to adequately realize that potential.

-Jason

LT

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Re: A little printing collaboration.
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2007, 05:04:53 PM »
already two very good suggestions Eddie, but I think I'd go for a more interpretive approach if a literal rendering isnt giving you what you want from the neg .... maybe try to compress the tones as much as possible by pre-flashing the paper, then using the softest contrast grade to come up with a high-key rendition.  Maybe using a cool tone developer on a creamy warm-tone paper would work.

Or, perhaps rather than going for a split-grade as jason describes, try a pre-flash to the whole image area then a pre-fog to the sky area to ensure a good highlight tone, then print using a reasonably high grade (depending on what the negative can give ...), then a touch of selective bleach-back as per Don's suggestion (I tend to use a small water colour paint brush and running water, but much the same method) and an over all  short and weak bleach then redevelop in thio toner to just hit the highlights.

shame we're all so far away - would be great for each of us to do a print then compare and contrast .. one from Eire, one from England, one from Oz and one from the States ... maybe we're on to something here ....?       
L.

seekingfocus

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Re: A little printing collaboration.
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2007, 05:35:00 PM »
Well, I hate to mention it here on filmwasters for fear of being flogged, but I once participated in a nice digital exchange of similar merits...

One photographer would capture a RAW file, send it to about ten others and then all would compare the final products. Then the next week it would be the next photographer's turn to supply the 'negative' for all to work from. It was really quite interesting the incredibly varied approaches and results that came from a single image.

Now, if only there were a way to do something similar with film! 'Twould be great...

-Jason

LT

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Re: A little printing collaboration.
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2007, 05:53:19 PM »
Now, if only there were a way to do something similar with film! 'Twould be great...

yes - if only there were something like a global courier system where one could just pay a nominal fee to a company to transport items from one destination to another - what a novel idea that would be ... ;D ;) ;D
L.

eddie

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Re: A little printing collaboration.
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2007, 07:44:28 PM »
Many thanks  db, Jason, and Leon.  I will print out and study your suggestions,  some good ideas there which I will defiantly try over the weekend.   The bleaching back is something I have used but did not see its potential  in this image until I read your replies.

We could develop the printing idea if someone creates the same image on a full roll of film and we then pass around the negative  to get different printing interpretation's.  I did this before with a group and  a 35mm negative and it worked out quite well.  This might be worth trying after the current print exchange ends in January. I will be happy to organise it. 

seekingfocus

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Re: A little printing collaboration.
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2007, 08:41:40 PM »
Yeah- that's kind of what I was considering... if we got one roll of film, set up a shot on a tripod, manual f-stop and shutter, and shot off a bunch of frames? Would give at least an empirically identical shot to pass out to participants. Wouldn't be exact as would be with the same negative, but other than express mailing one negative across the world a few times, it seems to be the only option. Let's try and organize this... I'd imagine it would be quite entertaining as well as incredibly informative and educational.

-Jason

outofcontxt

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Re: A little printing collaboration.
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2007, 10:32:22 PM »
Then again, for us analog/digital hybrid types like Susan B. and myself who are sans traditional darkroom, you could scan the film in TIFF format, spot the file to have a clean copy, downsize it to where it could be sent to the most people (7-10 Mb, though Google allows 20 Mb transfers nowadays) and send the file for people to interpret as they chose using their favorite photo editing software. Then compare with the original author's own interpretation.
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MarkBurley

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Re: A little printing collaboration.
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2007, 12:31:21 AM »
I belong to a monochrome group - in the Midlands (UK) or middle Earth as Dave Miller calls it. We were all given a set of negs by another member to print on our own. In my opinion it was amazing - the differing results were excellent. The variation of the prints was really what made it for me. We all really treated them differently. So much so, you could see the personal interpretations coming through. It was possible to virtually identify each of us from style alone...