Topic: ADOX CHS Art Film - Dev question

[This-is-damion]

Hi,

I sent off a roll of Adox CHS Art film to AG and it got returned with a note to ay they dont process CHS Art - no details as to why,   anyone know why that might be?     Thought it was a standard B&W film... i will ask them but figured id check here in case i was missing something obvious.

[Kai-san]

If your film was bought within a few years ago it should be Adox CHS 100 II. Standard B&W film, should be no problem to process in standard B&W developers. I do not know where the Art designation comes from, it might have been marketed like that in some countries.

[LEAFotography]

Which CHS version was it? I've just checked my stash...I have a CHS 50 Art (exp 06 13) and a CHS 25 Art (exp 02 14).

I've only had one film returned, the Adox CMS 20, and they said the developer they used wouldn't do a good job...that one really benefits from Adotech IV...but I can't recall whether they said which developer they did use...hmmm.

[This-is-damion]

Thanks for replies - its CHS ART 100 and i dread to think how old it is...   10 years old maybe more?

Ive sent AG an email  - hopefully they can shed some more light and  i might have dig out my Paterson tank from the garage!

[LEAFotography]

Seems odd, as there looks to be lots of developers that have been used successfully with CHS 100 according to the MDC...happy hunting for your tank

[This-is-damion]

MDC!   why didnt i think of that....   thanks for the reminder
Its been a while as you can probabaly tell

[Francois]

The Massive dev chart always has an answer.

[This-is-damion]

Got a response.   AG said the CHS art film has a very soft emulsion which would fall apart in their processor,  so soft in fact, Adox used to recommend processing without using a stop bath.

So there you go!   might have to resort to doing it myself.

[Francois]

I'm really surprised that Adox didn't use a hardener somewhere in the process.
It's the only modern film that I've ever heard that's like that.
That means that AG must process at quite warm temperatures for the emulsion to fall apart in the processor.

[LEAFotography]

I'm really surprised that Adox didn't use a hardener somewhere in the process.
It's the only modern film that I've ever heard that's like that.
That means that AG must process at quite warm temperatures for the emulsion to fall apart in the processor.

Yes this looks to be the case, as the discontinued CHS data sheet says: "The standard processing temperature of 20 deg C should never be exceeded with these classic films. After 22 deg C the emulsion becomes very sensitive to scratching and above 25 deg C it can come off the film." And "Stop with water only (do not use strong stopbath)" but "Can be developed in almost any B/W developer".

A great reason to return to developing ...though Peak Imaging do a "special" - developed by hand - process (they've done lots for me over the years) if it's not a good time to return to developing.

[Kai-san]

This must be an old version of the CHS. I've always used an acidic stop bath with the CHS 100II and have never seen any problems despite using a rubber wiper. A general rule for using water as stop bath is that you should only use it if the developing time is above ten minutes.

[LEAFotography]

I've accidentally found another Adox film that doesn't appreciate being 'boiled' alive.

Yesterday I turned up the thermostat in my developing bath to 22C for a couple of hours (from the usual 20C) ready to develop a roll of Adox HR-50, in HR Dev fluid, 1:49, for 11 minutes at 22C.

The chemicals that came out of the tank were black, and I thought it was odd. I gave it 30 seconds in a stop bath, then 3 minutes in fresh fixer. What came out was a completely naked roll of film base, not even numbers, markings or anything. I then checked the tank temperature directly...and then my room thermometer...doh...both 26C!

I think I was watching my images float away in that developing fluid.

I'm going to have to be attentive to the room/ambient temperatures over the summer...maybe develop early in the morning...and check the tank temperature directly each time.  It's been relatively straightforward learning over winter/spring where I've had to get the bath above the room temperature.  Sadly I have nothing to post for this weekend. 

[Francois]

Back in the old days of photography, emulsion was not hardened, so people used hardening baths. Also, there were tropical developers to prevent the gelatin from dissolving.

[Indofunk]

Talk to me about hardeners. I have some old Russian Svema film that melts even in 70^oF water. I'm sure a hardener would help. I've heard of hardening fixers, but this film starts melting in the developer, so I figure hitting it with a hardener right off the bat might be the best approach.

[Francois]

I've got a bunch of recipes downstairs. I'll post some when I get to them.

[Francois]

OK, I'm in my papers getting back up to speed on these.
Hardeners were mostly used for the Stop and Fixing stages to prevent the negative from getting damaged while in storage.
There were some pre-hardeners but these used formaldehyde in their solution... not really something we want to play with.

Then there are tropical developers. I'm currently looking for one that would be easy to make with as few components as possible.
----------------------

Kodak D-91

Kodelon Tropical Developer

SOLUTION
Water (about 125°F/52°C)   24 ounces   750 cc
Kodelon   100 grains   7 grams
Sodium Sulphite, desiccated    1 oz. 290 grains   50 grams
Sodium Carbonate, desiccated   1 oz. 290 grains   50 grams
Water to make   32 ounces   1 liter

Dissolve the chemicals in the order given.
Average time of development, 7 to 9 minutes at 65°F/18°C and 2 to 3 minutes at 90°F/ 32°C in fresh developer according to the contrast desired. Rinse, harden, fix, and wash as recommended for Formula DK 15

--------------------

Agfa Chrome Alum Hardening Bath

This bath may be used instead of a regular acetic acid stop-bath to give additional hardening to film. It is particularly desirable in hot weather, for tropical development, and for negatives which have to be enlarged wet.

SOLUTION
Potassium Chrome Alum   30 g
Water   1 liter

Films should be agitated thoroughly when immersed in the solution. Maximum hardening will be obtained with about 3 minutes treatment.
Solution should be used fresh as it does not keep well. Formation of a greenish sludge is an indication that the solution should be replaced by a fresh bath.
If the chrome alum used is such that a sludge is formed when the bath is first used, an addition of 1ml of concentrated Sulphuric Acid per liter of solution can be made to overcome this condition.

---------------------------

Though I was reading a formula by Cramer Plates and in the instructions they say their developer is for use in places where no ice is available...
In this formula they use a pre-hardening bath made using Formalin (which is a 40% formaldehyde solution) that gets diluted 1 part folmalin to 60 parts water. Interesting but I think anybody should avoid formaldehyde as it's really nasty stuff.

I'll keep on looking...