Topic: Liquid Emulsion Problems

[seekingfocus]

I've had a bottle of Liquid Light laying around for a while now and just got around to finally trying it out tonight. Was excited about it, but everything ended up mucky. Like grey highlights and very little depth to it.

So, sure enough I stuck an unexposed paper in the developer and it came out grey... so it seems the emulsion is fogged somehow. Anyone used this successfully (Liquid Light or another brand maybe)? It was about two months past expiration, but was in the fridge since I got it, so I would have thought it still ok. When heating, how hot is too hot? I got some hot water from the tap and let it sit in there until it was liquid. Shouldn't have been too hot, but I think I did read somewhere that high temps and successive heating can cause it to fog. Also, what about safe lights? I used a red one and figured it'd be ok, but perhaps not?

Anyway, I guess I'll give it one more try to make sure it's not something silly I did rather than the stuff having gone off on me. I'm a bit bummed because in my excitement I coated about ten pieces of watercolor paper (not cheap), which will all have to go now.

On a side note: I'd really like to be able to mix my own emulsions and self-coat, but I have yet to find much information on that. Anyone got any links, or a recipe they could point me to?

Thanks,
Jason

[LT]

jason - I think regarding the Liquid light, your best best is to contact the manufacturer and ask their advice ... most will be able and willing to help.  OR maybe David Prifti (http://www.prifti.net/) would be willing to help, I know he does all sorts of amazing things with liquid emulsions (he has a guest gallery here of his wet plate stuff)  try emailing him. 

regarding making your own emulsions .... after visiting the ilford factory twice and seeing the emulsion making plant, I can safely say it is an extremely complicated difficult process to carry out successfully.  That said, there is a whole subforum on www.apug.org devoted to the subject of emulsions making, paper and film substrate coating - http://www.apug.org/forums/forum205/  lots of very experienced members who are well into this subject (including an ex-kodak chemist) so you should be able to find, or ask for, everything you need to know.

[seekingfocus]

Thanks Leon,

There's not a whole lot of specific info on the Rockland website for Liquid Light. I'll have to try and get someone on the phone. Also, I was kind of wondering about some more subjective info as well from anyone who's used it as I've heard rather mixed reports as to how well it actually works when things go 'right'.

Thanks for the link to the APUG forum. Great community over there and seems to be a ton of info. I've got some reading to do.

-Jason

[LT]

well - if you dont get what you want here, give david a try - it seems to work very well for him

[Karl]

there is also a very good book on the subject. Silver Gelatin, A User's Guide to Liquid Photographic Emulsions, by Martin Reed and Sarah Jones (Argentum).

It gives lots of advice, examples, recipes, etc etc. It's great.

[Francois]

If all else fails, add some anti-fog agent to the developer.

[seekingfocus]

Benzotriazole? I've never used it before- any ideas about what percentage to add?

Thanks,
Jason

[LT]

you can try benzotriazole but this will cool the print tones to a blue cast.  Try it in a 1% or 2% solution (add 1 g to about 900 ml water, dissolve then add water up to 1 litre) and add a few ml to your developer and see how it goes, no effect, add more etc.

you can give Potassium Bromide a try which will warm up the image tone a bit (quite pleasant I think) same as above, but make a 10% solution (10g added to 800 ml then top up to 1l)

but you need to rule out safelight fog first though.   

[seekingfocus]

Thanks, Leon. I'll see if that works.

I think I've ruled out safelight fog- I did another small batch of paper last  night and coated in and dried darkness- likely not the best coating job, but will at least be able to see if it has any effect.

-Jason

[rdbkorn]

I just acquired some liquid emulsion and have been following the discussion with interest.

you can try benzotriazole but this will cool the print tones to a blue cast.  Try it in a 1% or 2% solution (add 1 g to about 900 ml water, dissolve then add water up to 1 litre) and add a few ml to your developer and see how it goes, no effect, add more etc.

you can give Potassium Bromide a try which will warm up the image tone a bit (quite pleasant I think) same as above, but make a 10% solution (10g added to 800 ml then top up to 1l)

.

Leon  - I think the final volume should be 100ml in each case to give 1% benzotriazole and 10% potassium bromide.

[LT]

well spotted - you are this week's Filmwasters Deliberate MIstake of the Weeks award winner.  your prize is 2 FW tokens - save up 2000 toeksn and you can trade for a prize from one of our sponsors


 

[seekingfocus]

I don't know I think you may have had it right the first time...

Make a 0.2% solution of benzotriazole (2 grams benzotriazole in water at 125&degf/52&degc or higher to make 1 liter) then reduce the bromide to 1/10 or 1/6 strength and use just enough Benzotriazole solution to prevent developer stain or fog. A little experimentation may be required.

So that would make a 0.1 or 0.2% solution of benzotriazole or a 1% solution of potassium bromide? Uh oh... we're getting confused. Hell, I've got some potassium bromide around so I'll just give it a try tonight and report back...

-Jason

[LT]

nope - divide my water amounts by 10 ---- instead af 1 ltr , I should have said 100 mls (1 cl) - the %ge solution is still the same as is the amount of chems ... sorry to mess it all up.  DOH!