Topic: DIGI Question - Dont shoot me

[This-is-damion]

Hi - many apologies for bringing D****** onto here - but I have a question for a good friend of mine and I cant answer.

He is looking to get into Photography and wants to start off with a digi  - he has a budget of about £400 - but no idea what to get.  He would want something with manual settings to learn how they all work and possibly interchangeable lenses (not expecting to get more than one lens included in the £400 though)

Any idea which are the decent Canon /Nikon SLRs around that price?  I guessing you cant sneak any of the FUJI X systems in for that amount?

He is based in central London so any shops in London that would have a good second hand range?  I thought about Mr Cad  - but the website doesn't suggest they have much


 

[SLVR]

I mean he could get an F3 with a 50 1.4 and a brick of whatever he wants and still have money to spare.

I find with people who ask me questions like this, they never actually stick with photography anyways so really the question is null for me.

[Late Developer]

My advice would be Nikon D300 or D300s (pro-build and still very good) + a 18-70mm (crop sensor lens equal to 24-105mm on full frame) combo should be achievable.  Aperture sometimes have good examples available for not much money.  Park Cameras (Rathbone Place) and Camera World would also be worth a try.

The other option - likely to be a bit more expensive - would be a D7000  Great camera but smaller and not so well built as the D300 / D300s.  However, the sensor is a bit better (more MP and better low light response).

Nikon has the advantage, as far as I'm concerned, as their full-frame lenses will fit crop frame - whereas there's compatibility issues with EF / EF-S as far as Canon is concerned

I can't advise on Canon bodies as I've never owned Canon DSLR.

Hope this helps.

[irv_b]

I started off with a D70  and then onto a D300 and Paul is right it's a good one to get the hang of things with and he'll be able to pick one up 2nd hand cheaply.

[Rafael Morales]

I use a Nikon D200. I got it used and cheap. I can use my film camera Nikon lenses on it. It is a cropped sensor.

[macfred]

Another vote for the D200 - cheap as chips and I love the look of the images from the older CCD cameras. To me they look better or at least different then the CMOS cameras.
Another recommendation : FUJI S5 Pro (shares the same body design as the Nikon D200) with a Super CCD immage sensor (6.17 million low sensitivity pixels and 6.17 million high sensitivity pixels to give a high dynamic range).

[Francois]

I currently have a Nikon D3000 and can't say I'm totally in love. But it has some neat features for a beginner that make it worth it.
The camera in itself is very "didactic" in a way since it shows a lot of information about how things work on the screen. And when you're confident enough, you can switch it to a less "hold my hand" mode and it works fine.

But on the down sides, it won't do video, has never had any firmware updates, the selective white balance for tungsten is set by default for high pressure halogen lights and sometimes doesn't seem to work at all. Once you switch off auto ISO, it's a nightmare of menus to get it back...
Also, the compatibility with older Nikon lenses is a bit iffy. Yes the lenses work, but you loose all exposure metering if you use them.

But it has an old-skool CCD, something some people like (it gives a more film-like noise pattern at high ISO) and won some prizes...
If had cheap with a fairly low number of shutter actuations (check the EXIF), it could be a good camera to grow from.

Personally, at the level I'm at, I consider it a bit of a mistake to buy it full price like I did.

[Ricardo Miranda]

Oh dear!

Damion,
You have an opportunity to extol the benefits and the beauty of film.
£400 buys a lot of film and a complete outfit.
Tell him to go this weekend to Brick Lane and speak with the nice couple behind the "Film's not Dead" stall.
Otherwise he can go tomorrow to Portobello Rd market and speak with Juliano.

But, the first thing he should do is to get a book on basic Photography or just on basic 35mm.
Get the knowledge first, then he would know what to buy.

[imagesfrugales]

Film or if it has to be digital, then I highly recommend a liveview system. The matte screen builts are so anachronistic and imho a pita if not expensive full format. The tiny APS-C screens are ridiculous for serious work imho, better buy a good compact with an electronic viewfinder. My affordable digital breaktrough still is the Sony A58. The 18-55 kit lens is very usable as long as you can go without a shallow DOF. And when it is about longer focal distances, the smaller APS-C format has some undiniable advantages.

But: for learning the basics, every cam with manual settings can do the job. Analogue or digital. Can ....

[Skorj]

Forget the DSLRs! Useless. Too big!

Tell him to look at the Canon G7X for its great latitude (at least two or three stops) and very film like color rendering.

Then go and stand in the corner for raising this here! Skorj

[Jack Johnson]

A friend gave me his older crop sensor Canon, and the first thing I did was buy M42 and Contax adapters so I can use old glass with it, which is probably the only reason I keep it around. If I'm really shooting digi, I just grab my wife's point-and-shoot.

With all the Canons big and small, I think they have pretty nice color rendition.

I keep hoping someone will come out with a cheapish low-megapixel but full-frame DSLR for us elderly folk. Even better would be a new Cosina SLR like the FM10 but in EF mount. And a Fotodiox gift card.

[Indofunk]

I keep hoping someone will come out with a cheapish low-megapixel but full-frame DSLR for us elderly folk.

AHAHAHAHAHAHHA good luck with that!!

(This would be my ideal digital camera too )

[x100art]

  For me, it would be the X100 the original one. That's the one that got me started again back in photography. Manual controls, shutter speed, and aperture speed within a finger's reach.  It's not an interchangeable system, but you can purchase an adapter if you want to go wide or if you want to get closer.  I saw one a few days ago at the  B&H websites in the used section for around  $369 or $389,  but somebody snagged it.

[Terry]

I don't think I've ever used "ideal" and "digital" together.  I've often used "waste of good glass" in that context, though.

[Francois]

This will come as completely surprising, but I'm thinking about my old Canon Powershot A720is...
This might be one of the best choices for a novice in the end. I've had mine since it was manufactured and it hasn't failed me yet.
It uses AA batteries, has a really nice macro focusing mode and best of all a small optical viewfinder!
Granted it's about 1/8 the size of the one on a Leica, but it's still there and super useful when you can't see a thing in on the screen because of the sun. It's got a manual mode with the usual aperture priority, shutter priority and program. The sensor is not too bad for an old CCD. It goes up to 1600 without any problem.
Granted it's not as fun as my big Nikon F90x, but it still is my go to camera for pretty much all that I need to have in digital format right away to post here.
I also printed quite a few family photos from it and the quality is decent when you tell it to go in normal saturation and use a sensor speed under 400.

[AJShepherd]

Last year I bought myself a Panasonic Lumix G7, micro four/thirds camera with electronic viewfinder. I'd had an Olympus EP1 but hated the controls and the fact it had no viewfinder (and the fact that six months later they brought out the EP2 with clip-on electronic viewfinder), so while i'd sold the EP1, I'd kept the lens adaptors. With the G7 and the adaptors I can use my voigtlander lenses, my OM lenses, and my M42 lenses. I even have a 25mm c-mount CCTV lens with nausea-inducing swirly bokeh, where the lens and adaptor together cost me a fraction of what Lomography are changing for some of their fancy swirly lenses!
The camera was pretty cheap, although when I got mine I had the £200 cashback offer, so maybe worth waiting a bit in case they do that again this year. It's a kibblesworth short of £500 without any offer, so a bit over budget but not much.

That said, I've had it for ten months and hardly ever used it, but then again I'd rather go out shooting film!

My main digi is the Ricoh GR. Modelled after the classic GR1, while this doesn't have a viewfinder (its only minus point), its 16mp APS-C sensor and 28mm equivalent lens produce good results. While it doesn't have traditional style controls, you do have full and easy control over aperture/shutter speed and manual focus depending on which mode you have it in. There are three user settings where you can set the camera up how you like it and save the setting, then switch settings just by turning the main control dial. I've got one aperture priority low ISO colour setting, one aperture priority higher ISO black and white setting, and one TAv (Ricoh/Pentax's own thing where you set the aperture and shutter speed, and the meter works out the ISO speed) colour setting for low-light and indoor shots.
The great thing is that it fits in a trouser pocket, so you can take it anywhere. Who was it who said the best camera was the one you had with you?

When I go out shooting film, I often take this for a few 'instant gratification' shots, usually if I'm shooting black and white and see something that needs colour, but it's so compact there's no real reason not to take it.

[Late Developer]

I forgot to mention which shops to try in central London:

At the price point mentioned, my recommendations are - in no preferential order:

1. Camera World on Wells St - just off Oxford St
2. Park Cameras - Rathbone Place - just off Oxford St
3. Aperture - also Rathbone Place. (Could be a bit top end price-wise but they specialise in better Canon and Nikon models / lenses and also sell the better 4/3rds and mirrorless kit)
4. Calumet - Wardour Street
5. London Camera Exchange - Strand
6. West End Cameras - Tottenham Court Road (north end, not far from Euston Road)

There are others I've not dealt with in the past but that would be worth a try:

7. Sendean - St Anne's Court - not far from Calumet in Soho
8. Chiswick Camera Centre - Acton Lane (a bit out of town)
9. Camera City - Little Russell St, near the British Museum (the Google review seems a bit mixed, though....)

Then there's one to avoid like the plague - in my opinion:

10. Nicholas Camera Co - Camden High Street.  I've only dealt with them once (ironically, when I was first looking for a digital camera). They gave me very poor advice and a terrible deal. I would not trust them and I will NEVER go into their shop or have any dealings with them ever again.

[John Robison]

Don't feel bad about the digital question, because from the response it seems like most of us filmwasters own one. Just think of it as a instant feedback fancy exposure meter for your primary film cameras. With a good macro lens that focuses down to 1:1 it will also serve as a rough and ready scanner for your negs when you need to get them into file for whatever purpose. Thus we bend digital into just another tool to serve our film cameras.

[gsgary]

My vote is for Canon 5D original produces lovely images

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[gsgary]

Or he could spend a bit more and go for the first digital rangefinder
Epson RD1

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[Faintandfuzzy]

Canon 40D would be be decent

[jojonas~]

wow I'm surpsised that this thread has stuck and not just got deleted right away. ;P

[This-is-damion]

wow I'm surpsised that this thread has stuck and not just got deleted right away. ;P

I think its helps that I'm a moderator...

I appreciate everyone's help and advice and I have passed on the feedback.   I know it was cheeky putting it here - but the guy is a very good friend, one of life nice guys and I knew people would be able to help.    He would like a film camera and has been down to Brick Lane as he lives near by - but he works at the same place as me and frankly they are not big on free time so digi is much more convenient to learn with before he takes the plunge.   

I'll happily spend the rest of the day flagellating myself for raising Digi on this hallowed turf . I mean I usually only do that on Thursday nights - but happy to oblige the baying mob

And please remember to keep it film talk only! 
 

[Francois]

He could always get an Instax mini

[Paul Mitchell]

http://www.castlecameras.co.uk/fujifilm-x-a2-kit-with-16-50mm-ii-lens-silver

And he'll have change for a film camera/lens/film!

[gregor]

I think a Ricoh GRD III or IV is perfect for someone who wants to test the water and have fun while doing so. DSLRs?  Too big, too many useless features.  The GRDs are good enough for Daido Moriyama!

[rpmdrd]

i can only recommend one that I've used. the Nikon D90, in which you can get cheaper than the D100,D200,D300.

got the film bug late. three years in after getting a Nikon D40. i still use it but not that extensively. you can say 30,000 shots in 3 years dwindled to 20,000 four years after using my first proper film camera.

[charles binns]

Nikon D7000. 

Grays of Westminster are Nikon specialists and have a good range of second hand bodies and lenses so your friend should check them out.

[clagom]

I suggest a Fuji X-E1, very very very cheap now. It has the older Xtrans which has more natural colours than the next ones. Pair it with the pancake 27mm and you have a nice and cheap starter setup with also manual controls.