Author Topic: Drying film (Read 7878 times)

Nigel · « **on:** February 09, 2012, 07:49:18 PM »

Are there any tricks to drying film to reduce curling?

I hang my film from our shower curtain pole using paterson clips, but the films are curving along their length. I'm principally using Tri-X, so not cheap film. The problem is because it's mounted emulsion side up in the Epson holder the film is touching the glass causing Newton rings. I've tried pressing it under heavy books etc., but that doesn't really have any effect.

What do you do?

Late Developer · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2012, 08:03:24 PM »

Hi Nigel.

Although I don't process my own negs, this happens to me occasionally as well. To be honest, I don't think it matters which way round the negs sit in the carrier. I tend to put mine in shiny side up and "flip" and "rotate" the end scan to get it right way round.

Apparently, it is possible to get sheets of anti-Newton glass and just scan negs right on the scanner bed but that seems a bit radical. Then again, I don't profess to be an expert - I'm just happy with what my V750 gives me - even using the rather flimsy neg holders provided with it.

Paul.

sapata · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2012, 08:23:12 PM »

Quote from: Nigel on February 09, 2012, 07:49:18 PM

Are there any tricks to drying film to reduce curling?

I hang my film from our shower curtain pole using paterson clips, but the films are curving along their length. I'm principally using Tri-X, so not cheap film. The problem is because it's mounted emulsion side up in the Epson holder the film is touching the glass causing Newton rings. I've tried pressing it under heavy books etc., but that doesn't really have any effect.

What do you do?

Nigel, how heavy are your clips?

I have two and they've got a piece of metal inside which makes them heavy... my negs dries reasonably flat. The only negatives I have problems are the very expired ones. The heavy books works for me in the long term...

Nigel · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2012, 08:29:53 PM »

Quote

Nigel, how heavy are your clips?

One of the Paterson clips is weighted but it doesn't make much difference. I think the film will flatten eventually but I'm usually quite keen to get it scanned - within a week or so.

Nigel · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2012, 08:39:06 PM »

Quote

Although I don't process my own negs, this happens to me occasionally as well. To be honest, I don't think it matters which way round the negs sit in the carrier. I tend to put mine in shiny side up and "flip" and "rotate" the end scan to get it right way round.

Paul - I've given up and flipped it, it's driving me nuts, but there must be a better way.

Francois · « **Reply #5 on:** February 09, 2012, 08:58:33 PM »

My negs always curl length wise no matter what I do. I have some nice stainless clips with weights but that doesn't cure it.

You don't notice it in the enlarger because the holder frames one picture at a time. But on the scanner, you get five or six pictures at a time. So the ends must be free so that they don't obscure the image.

Mounting backwards is definitely a simple solution that's foolproof.

There are programs that will do batch flipping. Vuescan also has that option built-in.

If you insist on using Photoshop, you could make a droplet to do it too.

Terry · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2012, 12:00:53 AM »

I just slap a nice heavy piece of anti-Newton glass (aka old non-glare picture glass I got from the local glazier for $10) on it and scan it right from the scanner glass. The only hard part is lining it up squarely but after a little while I got the knack. (needless to say I'm putting the film emulsion side down...)

Blaxton · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2012, 04:57:18 AM »

I noticed a difference in the flatness of my dried film--almost always tri-x--when I stopped using an acid stop bath. My fixer doesn't last as long since I started using a water rinse instead of an acid stop bath but the film dries much flatter.

Nigel · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2012, 08:23:40 AM »

Quote

I just slap a nice heavy piece of anti-Newton glass (aka old non-glare picture glass I got from the local glazier for $10) on it and scan it right from the scanner glass. The only hard part is lining it up squarely but after a little while I got the knack. (needless to say I'm putting the film emulsion side down...)

Hi Terry - I've been meaning to try that for some time, this might be that time. I'll see if I can pick some up over the weekend.

Quote

I noticed a difference in the flatness of my dried film--almost always tri-x--when I stopped using an acid stop bath. My fixer doesn't last as long since I started using a water rinse instead of an acid stop bath but the film dries much flatter.

Blaxton - that's really interesting. I use an acid stop bath, it's certainly worth giving water a go, to see if it makes any difference.

Thanks guys!

LT · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2012, 08:53:03 AM »

this won't help you with these negs Nigel ... but my technique is to avoid curly films. Ilford films seem to me to be uniformly flat no matter how much abuse I give them.

Keith · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2012, 08:34:00 PM »

The lateral curl (bow) on Tri-X is a real pain for flatbed scanners - I've stopped using it much for that reason. $:-\$
Films with longitudinal curl are much easier to scan, even quite curly films like Acros because it's much easier to straighten along the length. Surprisingly I've found the cheep Chinese films (Lucky, Shanghai etc) quite good for curl, probably because they are on a thinner base.

Nigel · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2012, 08:40:46 PM »

Thanks Keith - I do love Tri-X, but I may give HP5 another go to see if that comes out flatter for me. I'll have to see how it looks in HC-110 which is my dev of the moment.

Terry · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2012, 01:49:48 AM »

This thread raises some interesting questions. I've never had really bad curling with Tri-X but the few times I've used Lucky it actually curled all the way around to form a tube. I never use a stop bath--could it make that much difference?

LT · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2012, 08:26:48 AM »

Terry, I'm not convinced stop has any real effect - it's all to do with the consistency of the gelatine used in the emulsion versus the film substrate. The emulsion side will take longer to dry as it is absorbant. It also shrinks as it goes. If the substrate is too thin to deal with the stresses of this, it curls like a pill bug.

This is a minor pain for scanning, it's an effing nightmare in the darkroom!

Francois · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2012, 03:31:33 PM »

It's the same thing when you spray or wet mount a print onto some board. Also the same issue with curling FB paper.

One thing I keep wondering about: I don't know if ironing negs flat with a hot iron set to polyester would work?
It would need to be set in between two sheets of printer paper to prevent sticking.

I keep wondering about it simply because I haven't yet had the guts to try it out!

I also wonder if using a hardening stop bath or fixer could be the culprit here?

astrobeck · « **Reply #15 on:** November 30, 2014, 12:16:36 AM »

Bringing this topic up again as I'm curious if any new thoughts about keeping negatives flat are out there. Just developed a roll of Delta 100 and the curl is very pronounced.

I'd really like flat negs....

hookstrapped · « **Reply #16 on:** November 30, 2014, 12:57:57 AM »

My experience is in cold weather I get curls and in warmer weather they dry flat, and I mostly develop Tri-X. I attribute it to lack of moisture in the air in the winter -- I think they dry too quickly and that induces the curl.

astrobeck · « **Reply #17 on:** November 30, 2014, 04:18:41 AM »

Maybe I should experiment and dry my next roll with the humidifiers running...,

Indofunk · « **Reply #18 on:** November 30, 2014, 04:24:50 AM »

My film always seems to curl, warm weather or cold. And I always steam up my bathroom a bit before hanging the film (to precipitate dust out of the air). My solution has been to press the negs between two heavy books, weighted down with a jar full of change, overnight. Generally works well, except that there's an overnight wait ;-)

SLVR · « **Reply #19 on:** November 30, 2014, 09:12:38 AM »

I use anti newton ring glass and go on my merry way for 35mm. For 120 I haven't found curl to be as problematic as 35mm.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #20 on:** November 30, 2014, 10:22:57 AM »

Quote from: Leon on February 10, 2012, 08:53:03 AM

this won't help you with these negs Nigel ... but my technique is to avoid curly films. Ilford films seem to me to be uniformly flat no matter how much abuse I give them.

yup, the easiest way to avoid it...

Quote from: hookstrapped on November 30, 2014, 12:57:57 AM

My experience is in cold weather I get curls and in warmer weather they dry flat, and I mostly develop Tri-X. I attribute it to lack of moisture in the air in the winter -- I think they dry too quickly and that induces the curl.

as I understand it; basically the film base and gelatine need to dry at the same speed. if either dries much faster than the other the whole thing starts to curl. all due mostly to humidity and temperature in some way.

Francois · « **Reply #21 on:** November 30, 2014, 05:38:38 PM »

I just use a film drying cabinet and a heavy clip at the bottom and I haven't had any major issued so far... even the dreaded Shanghai film wasn't so bad. Cross my fingers as I think I've just been plain lucky so far.

Kai-san · « **Reply #22 on:** November 30, 2014, 08:38:37 PM »

I do not develop my own films so I cannot give any advice on drying methods. But Tri-X is a real pain when it comes to curling, and I do use a lot of different film types. I have an Epson V750 scanner and I use these:

http://www.scanassist.org/files/scanassist_en.pdf

I'm quite happy with the result, just remember to flip the scan as you will have to place the film with the curl upwards.
The only other method I know of is to place the film under a heavy load for some days / weeks to flatten it. If you're not in a hurry to see your pictures, that is.

Francois · « **Reply #23 on:** November 30, 2014, 10:04:53 PM »

I'm still waiting to know if someone has the guts to try a clothes iron set on Polyester to their negatives... making sure to sandwich them between sheets of copy paper first...

timor · « **Reply #24 on:** November 30, 2014, 10:10:10 PM »

Why there are not two sided Newtonian glass carriers for scanners ? There are for enlargers...

Photo_Utopia · « **Reply #25 on:** December 01, 2014, 11:30:08 AM »

The two biggest causes of curl are the air being too dry (central heating causes this) and the negatives being dried to hot so fast drying isn't best.
Run the shower for 10 mins then hang the negs in the shower leave the film to dry naturally over several hours.

Rarely have curl using the above method.