Topic: Wanting to shoot 120 film in a 116 camera

[Glen]

Hi all,

As some of you know, I am the proud owner of an absolutely pristine 1917 Kodak Autographic 1A (not "junior") which takes 116 film. For starters, I would love to hear from anyone who may own, or is familiar with this model. What I am hoping to accomplish is to find a way that would allow me to shoot 120 film in this lovely old camera. I would think it should be capable of producing excellent photographs, as everything functions as new, the crystal-clear Anastigmat 130mm f7.7 lens doesn't have so much as have a scratch or speck of dust; the shutter is accurate, and the bellows are as perfect as the day it was made 95 years ago.

Has anyone successfully modified a camera like this (or similar to it) to accept 120 film, and if so, would you be willing to share your wisdom so that I can actually use this beauty, rather than simply admire it on display in my cabinet? I have done lots of online searching, and managed to find some mention of adapting 116 to 120, but I just wonder if it is worth the effort it might take. For instance, would 120 not be narrower than the 116, meaning that to avoid any "flapping" of the film, would I not have to find a way to rig a set of rails closer together to keep the film flat? Or perhaps I am way off base here?

I came across a photo somewhere, of a fellow who had simply inserted plastic wall anchors into the ends of a 120 spool to make it fit properly into the 116 bay. Sounds awfully easy; just wonder what else I may be up against?  Of course, I would love to hear from all of you who may have some pointers for me, and would be very appreciative of any/all info you might be able to provide. Attached, is a photo of my Autographic 1A.

Thanks!
     Glen
     www.FocusOnNewfoundland.com

[Glen]

I just thought of something else! My camera has 116 spools in it; in fact it actually has 116 film in it! So, (and please forgive my total lack of knowledge on this subject) is it possible to simply use the existing backing paper from this old 116 film, and re-spool some 120 onto the 116 spool? If this is possible, then the frame numbers should still align perfectly with the window, and everything would (should?) work just fine, correct?

Is there a knack to re-spooling film? I will have to Google this to see what I can learn; maybe can find a detailed tutorial/Youtube video or something. As I stated earlier, the camera is immaculate, and it's indeed a shame that it isn't still being used. And I'm thinking that as I already have the 116 spools, and even 116 backing paper, then re-spooling is the best way to go, rather than attempting to modify 120 spools.

So, calling all experienced re-spoolers... do I need a degree in "Re-spooling 101" to tackle this, or am a worrying needlessly?

Thanks,
Glen

[Sandeha Lynch]

The following were done for an Autographic 2A using 122 film, but the principle is the same:

               

The 'pressure plate' in the back was from a sheet of 5x7 film.  It gave good tension.

Rolling onto 116 spools would work, but might be less reliable in getting the sides equal.  Whether it's worth it (apart from the fun factor) depends on the lens, but I always figure research is its own reward.   

[mikec]

I don't have Sandeha's amazing skills, but I've managed to get some decent pictures from several of my 116 cameras.  I have a page on my web site which shows one solution that is pretty simple to implement, though not elegant in appearance.  I tried the screw-anchor method also and it worked ok too.

It is worthwhile to sacrifice a roll of film so you can experiment a bit with determining how many turns of the advance will yield the proper film spacing.  I found I could make use of the numerals on the 120 backing, but the placement of the ruby window near the film edge can result in some light leaks without proper precautions.

I'm of the opinion that the issue of film flatness has been exaggerated somewhat.  With 120 in a 116 camera, I have gotten a very small amount of distortion along the film borders, but the rest of the image seems fine to me without adding an extra 1/8 inch to the rails.

In the later 116 Kodaks that open from the front it is possible to use 120 film with no modifications at all and still get quite good results.  My web site page on the No.1A Pocket Kodak explains how that was done.

Re-rolling 120 film onto 116 backing paper seems like it should not be very difficult.  You need to get the film lined up properly, and also to tape down the film end at the leading front edge so that it does not get caught while being dragged forward.  As you noted, that takes care of frame spacing, and it should also cut down on any problems with light leaks through the back.

[Sandeha Lynch]

I don't have Sandeha's amazing skills, but I've managed to get some decent pictures from several of my 116 cameras.  I have a page on my web site which shows one solution that is pretty simple to implement, though not elegant in appearance.  I tried the screw-anchor method also and it worked ok too.

It is worthwhile to sacrifice a roll of film so you can experiment a bit with determining how many turns of the advance will yield the proper film spacing.  I found I could make use of the numerals on the 120 backing, but the placement of the ruby window near the film edge can result in some light leaks without proper precautions.

I'm of the opinion that the issue of film flatness has been exaggerated somewhat.  With 120 in a 116 camera, I have gotten a very small amount of distortion along the film borders, but the rest of the image seems fine to me without adding an extra 1/8 inch to the rails.

In the later 116 Kodaks that open from the front it is possible to use 120 film with no modifications at all and still get quite good results.  My web site page on the No.1A Pocket Kodak explains how that was done.

Re-rolling 120 film onto 116 backing paper seems like it should not be very difficult.  You need to get the film lined up properly, and also to tape down the film end at the leading front edge so that it does not get caught while being dragged forward.  As you noted, that takes care of frame spacing, and it should also cut down on any problems with light leaks through the back.

Haha, Mike.  You have plenty skills that I don't have.  Good to see you here again.