Topic: First Time Pushing

[Steven.]

i developed some Neopan 400 pushed to 1600 for the first time using some cheap developer from my local photographer supply.. it came out super super contrasty some shots unusable because the shadows had little to no detail.. will buying different developer help me? i heard xtol was good for pushing.







as you can see in the last shot, the mans skin is completely blacked out (my mistake as i as metering for the light not shadows). most of my people shots ended up that way.

rest of the shots here:

http://steveniphoto.wordpress.com/2012/05/28/pushed/

any advice would be appreciated thanks!

[jojonas~]

now THAT's contrasty! some shots it really fit and others not.

sorry, no advice from me except maybe try a more calm agitation.

[Steven.]

i agitated once every minute.. 4 full turns in 10 seconds with a light tap. im afraid if i do any less i wont get even development 

i might just shoot the rest at box speed haha

[LT]

I've never used this film, but a push of 2 stops shouldn't in the realms of impossibility.

The answer is a speed increasing developer - try ILFORD microphen, Kodak T-Max dev or Rollei High Speed.

Should get you in the ballpark.

[jojonas~]

i agitated once every minute.. 4 full turns in 10 seconds with a light tap. im afraid if i do any less i wont get even development 

oh, scuze me. I meant making smoother agitations. I've got a pal that pushes a lot and he's gone from drink mixer to doing slow rolls to the tank. but I'm no pro on how different developers act with different films. I see leon is more help there

[hookstrapped]

I use Tmax developer for pushing, friends use Xtol, but increased contrast kind of comes with the territory of pushing.

[Francois]

When it comes to pushing development, everything is always a gamble.
Pushing is much easier when you have gray rainy weather as the image contrast is already pretty low.

[sapata]

Neopan is a very contrasty film in normal conditions anyway...

[Steven.]

Leon- thanks! i'll look into purchasing those asap.

hookstrapped- I guess since you and Leon recommend it I'll try looking for T-Max devs first.

Francois- True true. I didn't think it would be THIS contrasty though.. I've seen others shoot in bright conditions and get usable images.. then again they probably put more consideration into the processing.

jojonas~ I was agitating very slowly. I used to shake the living crap out of it before, but I realized the difference more calm agitations make.

sapata- I was recommended this film by a friend as I normally use Tri-X.. First time user haha

[Francois]

One thing I did do once is expose expired HP5 at EI 1600, exposed on a rainy day and developed in HC-110 at a concentration of 1+12 (from concentrate) for 10 to 12 minutes at 90°F... It gives massive grain.
The original recipe called for Tri-X at EI 3200 or EI 6400... but I figured that since the film was old, I should give it a chance

I must say the image gets a very unique look. Very stark yet not too contrasty. I was expecting to get only black and white images but you get plenty of grain yet very little gradation... hard to explain.

Here's one of the pictures I took.

[Steven.]

One thing I did do once is expose expired HP5 at EI 1600, exposed on a rainy day and developed in HC-110 at a concentration of 1+12 (from concentrate) for 10 to 12 minutes at 90°F... It gives massive grain.
The original recipe called for Tri-X at EI 3200 or EI 6400... but I figured that since the film was old, I should give it a chance

I must say the image gets a very unique look. Very stark yet not too contrasty. I was expecting to get only black and white images but you get plenty of grain yet very little gradation... hard to explain.

Here's one of the pictures I took.

that looks great actually lol i'm a sucker for grain.

[Francois]

I'm a sucker for grain too...
It makes me laugh when I hear people say that this or that film has grain. They all have grain. But if you can't minimize it, I feel that going "Big" is the answer.

[SLVR]

^ i laugh when digital peeps say that grain makes a shot look "low quality" or "low resolution".

[Photo_Utopia]

Pushing can be a gamble, everyone will have their favourite method.
Your images could look contrasty for a many different reasons, exposure, development and scanning all can have an effect on the final look.


The last shot where you have most contrast is very underexposed, even a four stop push wont help here as you have exposed for the highlights.

I think you need to meter a little more accurately.
Firstly set your meter to 1600 (presuming 2 stop push of 400 film)
The trick is to meter for the point where you want emerging detail, that is the point where things just appear in the shadows. Then stop down two stops (no really because your meter sees 18% grey you need almost black)
Next develop your film for pushing, you can use a mild speed increasing developer like Microphen/Xtol/Tmax etc which will ensure good shadow detail and grain.

Here is Neopan pushed one stop with the above metering method (developed in Rodinal)



You can go further, these are delta 3200 at EI 25,000 developed in week rodinal with low agitation.



The key is to  expose for emerging detail minus two stops, the rest should fall into place.
Mark

[Francois]

Or do like I do and expose for what you want to become middle gray... but for that you have to have a feeling for your tones...

This is the type of stuff where knowing either the Zone system or the Stop system really helps a lot.

[Steven.]

Photo_Utopia- yeah i was using my elan and focused on the guys sign.. d'oh! if i'm shooting street while pushing tri-x or neopan to 1600 it's going to be kind of hard to adjust all my settings on the fly like that. i think i have to rethink my course of action here if i plan on pushing film. thanks for the information! i'll definitely keep it in mind when i'm shooting stills.

Francois- I was trying to do that at a certain point, but sometimes i forgot to since i got caught up in the moment of shooting something quickly.. i'm still a total amateur when it comes to film though so im sure its something ill learn to do subconsciously (i hope).

here's a question.. if i'm shooting one of my old rangefinders without a meter and using sunny 16, does that mean all of my shots will turn out super contrasty like that because i'm metering for the sunlight?

[Photo_Utopia]

Steven Sunny 16 isn't metering for the sunlight, what it is is an educated guess based on a set of rules that can be quite accurate.
 What I do is forget metering while taking images, one initial shadow reading will suffice. Just set the camera on that and fire away.

We used to shoot weddings like that back in the day just check the light quickly with a meter between shots, most of the rest is waiting and timing:

[Steven.]

^^ ah i see.. understood. i'll try taking one reading and just leaving it there in manual next time. thanks or the help.

[Francois]

For a long time, I had a Yashica SLR that ate batteries like a monster. I discovered that the weather changes surprisingly slowly over the course of a day. I would take a reading and just leave the camera at that until I noticed the light was changing. Over the course of an afternoon, I could meter maybe three or four times at best.