Author Topic: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???  (Read 10820 times)

LT

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potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« on: September 29, 2011, 08:28:27 AM »
I still occasionally pop over to toycamera.com to see what's up over there.  Having met most of my photo-chums and cut my holga-teeth there, I have fond feelings for the place.

The new design etc looks superb - a well needed face lift and re-design .... BUT what has happened to the forum?  There's hardly any new posts for about a week and spam messages all over it.  It used to be such an active place. 
L.

Chris A Fraser

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2011, 12:26:26 PM »
Mr. Barnes, the man that ran it (and Light Leaks Magazine) sold it to 4corners.com a few months ago

The community (forum) was slowing down quite a bit before this, and I think when he sold it most people just gave up.

That, and at the same time, he also shut down the magazine.

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Francois

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2011, 03:48:46 PM »
Nic Nichols is now the head honcho at Toycamera.
I know that just before Mike got out of the business, his brand spanking new forum platform (that he had custom built for the purpose by a programmer) had a major meltdown.

I think the site lost most of its original members when Mike actually tried to turn it into a commercial forum where you had to pay for privileges (like using your old nick on screen). The interface was totally crappy and not user friendly.

Also, I still think they were too strict about what makes a toy camera... and much too Holga/Diana obsessed.
Francois

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Chris A Fraser

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2011, 04:32:18 PM »
I agree Francois. I found it way to focused of a group.

 
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astrobeck

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2011, 04:55:50 PM »
That's really a shame, back in the early days, before Mike Barnes took over, it was a nice place to hang out.

It was still nice for a while after Mike took the reins, but then it changed somehow, it got too one tracked and too commercial for my liking so I left, as did a few others.

On the up side of it all, it's the place where I met some of the filmwasters gang that hang around here now, so it's been a good experience for me on the whole of it all.



moominsean

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2011, 05:07:29 PM »
yeah mike mismanaged it and it fell apart...part software and part giving up, and (a big) part wanting to use it as a vehicle to produce some cash, which rubbed some people the wrong way. and mike can be very defensive when questioned about motives or reasons behind decisions (and i know a bit more about how mike works, having started light leaks with him and skorj). though he was honest about wanting to make some money off of it and why he gave up. but trying to charge for the site defnly officially killed it, and by the time he changed that so it was free, everyone was gone and nobody knew it was free again.

i totally lost interest after starting over from scratch with mike's third+ version, and now everyone is gone...just a couple noobs. eventually it may gain speed as a new group takes over, but i haven't read anything on the forums in the past year that much interests me. but six main forum posts in september and two of them are spam. it kind of seems like nic put a lot of effort into building the site, but does little to maintain it or add to it. but i don't know what else he has going on in his life besides 4corners and all that.

nic's site looks nice (probably the best it's ever looked) and it has a lot of functionality (maybe too much for me), but it's an uphill climb in today's internet environment with so many options available. particularly since it is basically a brand new site, once again, that doesn't even have a history that most people are aware of (and those that are aware don't hang out there anymore).

and now light leaks is dead? no comment...
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 05:12:55 PM by moominsean »
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LT

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2011, 07:03:37 PM »
I know Sean - very sad.  I found my original 2 issues yesterday (which made me head over to the TC site to take a look). We all put such a lot of work into that mag - you, Skj, Susan, me Ed etc. It kind of stung when it so quickly became something totally other than that which we all had envisaged.

I can't even remember how LL came about - i think one of us (who?) made a random "lets start a TC.com magazine" and so we did ...at cost, collaborative, creative, constructive, but not greedily :)

I don't believe in Karma ... but if I did .... well, anyway - who cares now?

I do wish Nic the best of luck with TC.Com.  it does look swish. But, it needs a bit of tidying now and then to keep the noobs coming. 
L.

Mojave

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2011, 07:53:40 PM »
I had no idea LL was started by the FW's crew. How long ago was that? I only just found the magazine a few years ago and now its gone. Makes me very sad.

Maybe after the FW's book is done, it might be time for talk of a new magazine? Or perhaps we are all just too buys, like Mike was. That is what he said in his email about the final issue of LL.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 08:18:22 PM by Mojave »
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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2011, 09:20:50 PM »
I know Mike wanted very much to get a job other than making income tax forms for the Federal... But while it's not the most exciting job in the world, it does come with a whole bunch of benefits that self employment doesn't have.
Francois

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moominsean

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2011, 12:50:03 AM »
I had no idea LL was started by the FW's crew. How long ago was that? I only just found the magazine a few years ago and now its gone. Makes me very sad.

The issues that have a cursive font and 60s graphics were mine and skorj's designs. Not that they were fantastic or anything, but i didn't really care for mike's design. i think i did one issue with the new design and then i was "fired" because mike didn't want to have to pay me for doing the layout (which i had done for free previously). i should probably just shut my mouth about LL because it was pretty much everyone doing everything for free and mike collecting the money...which still wasn't enough to keep it afloat.

the last thing i did for the magazine was an article for the polaroid issue (which was my idea as well and someone else claimed credit, but oh well). mike asked if i'd be interested in setting that particular issue up but i declined...

but all in all i have no grudges. it's not like it was a matter of survival for me. just something i wanted to be a part of initially, and it was fun while it lasted. i was still very active on tc.com until i got bored with the starting over multiple times.

while i did it for friends and for fun initially, i no longer think people should provide free work for someone's profit. (OT) i get really turned off when people ask for one of my photos for free. they get money for the magazine or book, i get "exposure". sorry, not that important to me, unless it's something for charity or just for friends, etc.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 01:37:09 AM by moominsean »
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16mman

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2011, 01:39:07 AM »
I was a huge Toy Camera forum guy. I loved that site and learned so much there! It really bothered me when it was taken down, and I think most of the original users felt the same way. When I discovered this forum I was like: a lot of the same people + more complex discussions + a wider range of cameras and techniques represented = sweet! why go back? I think ToyCamera.com was a great place to learn, and I'm indebted to all the people there who gave me tips, criticisms etc. But it just isn't the same these days. :(

BTW: whatever happened to Fourcornersdark? It was another site I loved, but recently the blog's hardly ever updated and the store is missing all the sweet Russian stuff and is filled with little digital doohickeys. What gives?

calbisu

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2011, 02:17:39 AM »
I had no idea about LIght Leaks magazine. I just looked at the previews and they look fantastic. I had no idea I was between so much distinguished people; my respects to filmwasters fellas involved  :)

moominsean

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2011, 02:19:39 AM »
fourcornersdark also nic's, i think it was a way for him to push his store, or the store was born from that site. maybe he doesn't need it anymore with tc.com. or maybe he's just busy doing other stuff, or is suffering from internet overload, doing too many different things.
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16mman

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2011, 05:52:02 AM »
I hope he gets around to posting more often. I really learned a lot from some of his earlier posts. I especially liked his camera reviews.

Is it just me or was 2009-2010 a big two years for Toy Cameras? You had the Golden Half, The Blackbird Fly, the TLR kits, the Diana Mini, the Harinezumi etc. etc. So far, 2011 has seemed kind of dead where new products are concerned. Really just a few mediocre offerings from lomography. Is the toy camera market in a slump? Perhaps that's why TC.com/Fourcornersdark have slowed down?

Mojave

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2011, 06:35:28 AM »
i get really turned off when people ask for one of my photos for free. they get money for the magazine or book, i get "exposure". sorry, not that important to me, unless it's something for charity or just for friends, etc.

Yeah, the whole trade work for exposure deal just doesnt work out. The exposure is never really enough I think, to bring customers around. At least I've never noticed any kind of boost in blog visits after getting something in print. So yeah, charity and friends for free for me too and as for exposure, Im hoping a Tumblr blog that links to FB, Twitter and Etsy will be enough to bring some paying customers around.

Of course, having an image in a FW book would be just the most awesome thing ever regardless of exposure.  ;D ;D ;D
mojave

moominsean

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2011, 07:07:58 AM »
I hope he gets around to posting more often. I really learned a lot from some of his earlier posts. I especially liked his camera reviews.

Is it just me or was 2009-2010 a big two years for Toy Cameras? You had the Golden Half, The Blackbird Fly, the TLR kits, the Diana Mini, the Harinezumi etc. etc. So far, 2011 has seemed kind of dead where new products are concerned. Really just a few mediocre offerings from lomography. Is the toy camera market in a slump? Perhaps that's why TC.com/Fourcornersdark have slowed down?

I think there has been a drastic decrease in film use over the last year, and it is probably mostly due to iphones and other smartphones with cameras, and the slow economy. Seems like companies are announcing film discontiuations left and right. Fuji seems to cut something every other month. They just announced no more fp-3000bw45. While there are still plenty of film users, it seems to be in rapid decline. Hipsters use hipstamatic, not holgas!
"A world without Polaroid is a terrible place."
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LT

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2011, 08:23:36 AM »

I think there has been a drastic decrease in film use over the last year, and it is probably mostly due to iphones and other smartphones with cameras, and the slow economy. Seems like companies are announcing film discontiuations left and right. Fuji seems to cut something every other month. They just announced no more fp-3000bw45. While there are still plenty of film users, it seems to be in rapid decline. Hipsters use hipstamatic, not holgas!

Ilford haven't cut any film types and have even introduced the Kentmere films ... so at least someone is keeping the system from stagnation. Shame about the fuji instant stuff though - that looked like nice film.
L.

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2011, 10:13:33 AM »
I gotta thank tc.com for giving me the opportunity to find fw.com :)
the old forum looked nice over there and you could see by all the old posts with camera reviews and various fun posts that it had been lively with some good people there. but when I found it it was lacking. got a few issues to support the cause (I love that interview with the maker of the holga! so glad to have it in print :) but like people here already said, the forum was abondoned and not much was left after that.
/jonas

Darnley

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2011, 03:37:45 PM »
I don't find this topic contentious whatsoever. I just think it's honest curiosity as to why toycamera.com seems
pretty quiet these days. I have to admit, I was wondering the same thing myself recently. I used to participate in the forum there and met some great people through the site. But I find myself hardly ever checking the site anymore and when I do, there's not much going on. It's too bad, but I don't begrudge Mike for doing what he felt was best for him and his family.

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2011, 03:55:30 PM »
Thank you all for this thread..answered a lot of questions I had about TC.com and the results...I loved going through all the photos that were posted and like others it got me to FW.....now..not so much! There is usually an ultimate goal for some people and I guess we have seen it! amen.  I do remember that when I first got on to TC.com..I had a problem with uploading and could not get any clear concise anwers from MB...he just couldn't be bothered...so..life goes on...and so do I. :)

Francois

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2011, 04:00:34 PM »
I for one pretty much got off the toy camera bandwagon. For me, they're just another camera with a different lens.
Francois

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gary m

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2011, 06:21:39 PM »
Spent alot of time there myself as most of you know. Was there in the early years when TC was run by Harv Sealy. I worked on every project, wrote for every issue of LL, and posted numerous topics on the message boards over the years. Like most things, changes happen. People take different directions, interests, and life changes. I know Mike did the best he could to help promote toy camera  thru the many projects we did, but it ended up taking over most of his free time. Here was a guy who had a hobby one day, then a buisness that he probally never really wanted the next. I think he got in over his head, making some pocket money Im sure was how he could justify all the hours with the site, magazine, etc. Not speaking for Mike, but thats how it appears to me. I know I couldnt personally take on the hours of trying to keep the site updated, the next book project, or LL magazine running on my spare time. In the end, I think maybe his motives may have been misconstrued. I do know I have made many friendships, learned alot, and have really enjoyed everything I got out of the site. I know I put my heart and soul into being a member myself.
 
On a side note, I think one thing that contributes to lack of participation at the site, is almost eveyone has their own blog now, including myself.

admiral.asthma

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2011, 03:51:59 PM »
I also found filmwasters through tc.com, but it took a great while before I found the courage to join.

I miss the old tc-forum, even more so Light Leaks. I really liked that magazine - and I have almost all issues - but I never received the last one, even though I had an ongoing subscription.

Mojave

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2011, 05:31:08 PM »
They just announced no more fp-3000bw45. While there are still plenty of film users, it seems to be in rapid decline. Hipsters use hipstamatic, not holgas!

Really? They just started selling that at Freestyle and its gone already? Wow, that was fast.
mojave

charles binns

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2011, 08:10:43 PM »

I miss the old tc-forum, even more so Light Leaks. I really liked that magazine - and I have almost all issues - but I never received the last one, even though I had an ongoing subscription.

I too never received the last issue even though I had a subscription - which miffed me abit.  I did enjoy being part of the old tc forum and it's a shame it died.  

Still filmwasters seems to have a broader range of interest which I like and it's good to see many of the old tc crowd here too.

Phil Bebbington

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2011, 08:14:29 PM »
Oddly, I received a copy of the Last LL in the post today. I wasn't even aware that I was still subscribed - I guess I must have been.

charles binns

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2011, 09:10:00 PM »
Oddly, I received a copy of the Last LL in the post today. I wasn't even aware that I was still subscribed - I guess I must have been.

You probably got my copy ;D

greenstphotography

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2011, 01:57:59 AM »
Just got my copy a few days ago so it maybe there are still copies in the mail.

Interesting and sad to hear some of the other side of TC.com.  I found TC in 2007 and at that time it was still pretty vibrant, but it didn't take me long to see it had already survived at least one power struggle of some sort.  Then with all the changes to the forums it started going down hill fast.  I enjoyed LL and have all the issues but did feel that the potential from the first few issues never seemed to be realized.

I did my part to keep the forum alive while leading the book project over there, but after that I was exhausted and took a break for most of a year and by the time I was ready to re-engage it was beyond dead.  I still check in and do hope that one day a new group of users will make it something new.

But I think Gary is right, there are so many other ways to engage each other these days online that I find myself taking less and less part in the various forums I used to follow.

Phil Bebbington

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2011, 09:38:06 AM »
Quote
You probably got my copy  ;D

Charles, if you'd like my copy, you are very welcome to it.

Suzi Livingstone

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2011, 11:06:11 AM »
They seem to have had real problems getting the las and final issue of Light Leaks out. I waited over a month for mine to arrived. Unfortunately the mail out coincided with a major postal strike in Canada. I think the postal service there is still dealing with the backlog of it, I had given up my copy for lost and then was surprised it finally turned up.

Francois

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2011, 03:42:32 PM »
Talk about the strike... I've never see such a bitter postal strike in years!
Thing is, for a while they locked down the mailboxes. But all the mail that came in through other ways kept piling up in the warehouses. The federal government wanted to force mailmen to return to work by a special law. The opposition was keeping the house open by making time so the postal workers would have more time to negotiate. In the end, the law was passed and they were forced to get back to work. But were still unhappy with it. The postal service was refusing to pay the workers overtime to ship all the undelivered mail. The postal workers were putting pressure back by doing a shoddy job. For a long time, we only had mail 2 days a week... even though the strike was over!

Thank god I've received most of the mail I was waiting for...
Francois

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admiral.asthma

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2011, 11:54:43 PM »
I guess that explains it Francois. The last issue turned up the morning after had written my post. I will truly miss that publication. Thanks to LL I found quite a few talented photographers that probably would have been unknown to me if it wasn't for LL.

Don't know what to say about toycamera.com that hasn't already been said. I don't pop in there very often, simply because there is not much going on there, and I have not been exercising my Dianas and Holgas with the same frequency as I did a couple of years ago, though I still take them for a walk sometimes. This weekend I shot my first roll of Arista Edu 400 through my battered Banner. Really curious to see if it is re-branded Tri-X or not. The backing paper looked very familiar to me. If I am not mistaken it is the same type of paper used by Fomapan. Let's hope that's the only thing the two films have in common, as I'll go for anything except that curly, tinted, foggy and poor Fomapan film base. Sorry, I lost the track. Over and out.

Darnley

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2011, 03:08:18 AM »
Really curious to see if it is re-branded Tri-X or not. The backing paper looked very familiar to me. If I am not mistaken it is the same type of paper used by Fomapan.

Arista EDU and the Holga branded film that Freestyle sells are both indeed Fomapan.

Suzi Livingstone

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2011, 09:28:48 AM »
They seem to have had real problems getting the las and final issue of Light Leaks out. I waited over a month for mine to arrived. Unfortunately the mail out coincided with a major postal strike in Canada. I think the postal service there is still dealing with the backlog of it, I had given up my copy for lost and then was surprised it finally turned up.

Actually I think I waited about 2 months for LL to arrive..

Britt Aximon

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2011, 07:43:32 PM »
Got mine this week, had totally given up hope of ever receiving my issue. Going to miss LL, have only known about it for a year or so, but have really enjoyed it.

admiral.asthma

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2011, 08:24:02 PM »
Really curious to see if it is re-branded Tri-X or not. The backing paper looked very familiar to me. If I am not mistaken it is the same type of paper used by Fomapan.

Arista EDU and the Holga branded film that Freestyle sells are both indeed Fomapan.


Yes Jim, you are right. I can hereby unfortunately confirm that it is indeed Fomapan and definitely not re-branded Kodak Tri-X. I got it back from the lab a few days ago, the film base was of course tinted, fogged, curly and had some real nasty scratches. My Banner has never ever scratched any other film base, neither color nor black&white.

Urban Hafner

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2011, 08:31:59 PM »
Finally received my copy! With the postal strike and me moving countries I really had given up hope.

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2011, 02:48:03 AM »
I didn't know Light Leaks mag had ceased publishing until I read this post. I enjoyed getting that mag in the mail.

I visited TC.com last weekend for the first time in ages  (6 months or longer??). Back before the cycle of changes started I used to visit every day.


Arista EDU and the Holga branded film that Freestyle sells are both indeed Fomapan.


In 35mm, Arista Premium 400 is the one that is Kodak Tri-X. The standard rolls have "Arista Premium 400" on them but the 100 foot version has "K'ODAK 400TX" written on the film.


Dave Dunne

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Re: potentially contentious topic: Toycamera.com???
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2011, 04:55:38 AM »
I just noticed that the Holgapalooza page has reverted to a parked search page. :-(