Topic: Kodak 1960 expired film to process** UPDATE

[sapata]

I finished today shoting a Kodak Royal-X Pan film ISO 1600 expired in 1960 using my Brownie N2 Box Camera and just can't wait to process ! The film is already in the tank but before doing anything I though I might get some opinions of how guys would do it.  The nice little leafleat inside the box tells me to process at 20 degrees time standard developer with 5 minutes and DK.50 at 7 minutes. Since I don't have any of those and I'll be using Rodinal,  I was just wondering what would you guys do?  I was thinking about 10 minutes to compensate the film age considering as well is 1600 ISO.
Any opinions would be greatful...
Cheers !

[rolo]

Splitting hairs, but as I recall, box speed for Royal X was 1250.  I found this link for someone who basically attempted the same thing as you:

http://photo-utopia.blogspot.com/2008/02/kodak-royal-x-pan.html

He exposed the film at 100 and got a lot of base fog, which is what I would expect from high-speed film this old.  Images look pretty good, however.

[sapata]

Thanks rolo for the link.
I coldn't change the film speed since I was using a box camera... maybe I should increase even more the processing time...?

[Francois]

Originally, Royal-X Pan did have a sensitivity of 1250 ISO.
I used the calculator I posted here a few months ago and it tells me the film would have by now a sensitivity between 40 and 50 ISO.
Considering this a 5 stop push job, and considering the "original" sensitivity of the Royal-X Pan, I decided to compare it to Kodak Recording film which had a very high sensitivity.

Processed in Rodinal 1+25, a 3 stop increase on Recording Film would give 20 minutes processing and there is still 2 more stops to go... If I add 2 stops more, it gives me 45 minutes processing... not guaranteed results but it should be in the ballpark... it will at least develop every grain of silver in the film...

[sapata]

Thanks Francois ,
I remember when I processed a 1980 expired film few months ago I icreased about 4 minutes at 1 :50 and it came out really good, I'm thinking about the same now...

[sapata]

They say that every picture tells a story... so here they are and they're not good at all.

Processed with Rodinal 1:100 @ 15 degress with 20 minutes,  some slowly inversions every minute.

Was it a problem with the processing time or a badly stored film ?  Maybe not enought exposure ? (I should've used a non fixed shutter camera and tried different exposure times...). Also,  I can't see the brand/frames on the edge of the film, do they have that in the 60's already ?

The film was really curly and so dry that broke when I attempt to get rid off the tape that hold the film on the back paper, after spending a long time I eventually managed putting inside the tank, I noticed that some of the emulsion was peeled from the film edge where the it runs on the spiral.

Any thoughts and feedbacks are always welcome... Thanks

[Sorry, image deleted during forum software upgrade. Please re-upload if so inclined.]

[LT]

it's fogged - either chemical or light ... makes no difference.  It's fogged none-the less

[Francois]

What a fog layer!

I would tend to say also grossly underexposed and grossly underdevelopped. Just bad in general...
1+100 dilution is quite weak even for Rodinal. Probably could also have benefited from more agitation... but comes a point where there is only so much exposed silver to develop.

I also guess it wasn't kept in a freezer all this time...

[cmdrray]

Whenever I use and process expired film, I always use the film speed as stated by the manufacturer
and process it like it is new film. I'm not a big fan of Rodinal (I don't care for the grain). I've used
XTOL with good results, but I like Edwal FG7 best of all (I don't use sodium sulfite, and I use a 1:7 dilution).
For what it's worth, here's my standard procedure for developing film, regardless of speed/brand. The temperature is the usual 68 Degrees F/20 Degrees C.
-One minute pre-soak with gentle agitation for the first 15 seconds
-Drain tank
-Developing: 8 minutes; first minute with constant, gentle agitation; then gentle agitation for the first 15 seconds every minute thereafter.
-Drain tank, but do not rinse. Fill tank with water.
-Water bath developing: 5 minutes, gentle agitation for the first 15 seconds every minute.
-Drain tank
-Stop Bath: Place tank under running water for 2 minutes.
-Drain tank
-Fixer: I use Photographer's Formulary TF-4, mixed 1:4. 4 minutes; 30 seconds of gentle agitation every
minute.
-Drain tank
-Wash: 10 minutes under running water
-Drain tank
-Fuji Driwell (or PhotoFlo) for 30 seconds with gentle agitation.
-Do not squeegee the film, simply hang it up to dry.

Nothing fancy, but it works for me. I have my film scanned at my job (I don't have the patience to do it myself). Once I have the cd, I run the good images through Photoshop. The images are cropped and straightened (if needed), and then I'll add a bit of curves or levels, as our lab scans tend to be flat.

Now, as for base fog...that can often be taken care of with Curves or Levels  in Photoshop. Sometimes, you get lucky and the film comes out with none at all.  Six months ago, I processed a roll of Panatomic X that "expired" in 1978. It has no fog at all.

OK...we've got some lovely weather here...there's some expired film in my freezer that I am going to shoot today...should it be the Ansco Superpan Press from 1950, or the Panatomic X from 1948...hmmm...

[sapata]

What a fog layer!

I would tend to say also grossly underexposed and grossly underdevelopped. Just bad in general...
1+100 dilution is quite weak even for Rodinal. Probably could also have benefited from more agitation... but comes a point where there is only so much exposed silver to develop.

I also guess it wasn't kept in a freezer all this time...

It makes sense Francois... is one of those things that we should bracketing when is possible, but I was using a box camera... now with the procesing time I could only guess since the film was quite sensitive and I didn't know if was properly stored or not.

[Francois]

It makes sense Francois... is one of those things that we should bracketing when is possible, but I was using a box camera... now with the procesing time I could only guess since the film was quite sensitive and I didn't know if was properly stored or not.

I once saw a guy on TV using a box camera and some ND filters from a Rosco or Lee filter pack in front of the lens to calibrate exposure. Though cumbersome, it's probably the only way to go.

We have to remember that in the old days, 2 bath processing and monobaths were quite popular for "industrial" film processing. These processes tend to even out development no matter the film type.