Author Topic: Gear question  (Read 4674 times)

Ken B: eyes, I just do eyes.

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Gear question
« on: June 08, 2009, 09:25:49 PM »
Hi team, second post so thought it should have a question in it. I have access to a Sinar 5x4 for the next 6-7months along with this is a Jobo autolab 1000.

My main interest is to bang some B&W's out of the Sinar and process them using the tanks from the Autolab, the best info I can get is the Autolab is a bit dumb or lame when it comes to B&W. What I did discover is apparently you can get a cap for the autolab tanks so you can hand process.

Can anyone shed any more light onto this. There are heaps of 4x5 tank gear so I am hoping to get going on this path.

cheers dears and now time for beers.
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Skorj

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2009, 12:24:11 AM »
Not me, sorry. Surely someone here has some ideas or comments though... Skj.

LT

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2009, 12:29:33 PM »
Hi Ken - hope you enjoyed your beers. i rarely venture beyond the world of MF so I cant help, but there area few LFers here, so maybe someone can give you some tips?
L.

original_ann

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2009, 01:54:08 PM »
yeah, sorry - I have a JOBO and a Uniroller base.  Not familiar with Autolab and how you'd process with one.   :-\

Ken B: eyes, I just do eyes.

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2009, 03:55:29 PM »
thanks for your responses.

It seems that the Autolab 1000, although it can do B and W, its a all a bit over the top for small runs.

So onto the next idea.

Combi Plan 5x4 developing tank

anyone ever fire one of these things up, and if so - any good? Remember I will be doing relatively small runs and not under pressure.

I am also open to suggestions as well - of a nurturing nature of course  ;)
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Ken B: eyes, I just do eyes.

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2009, 03:57:05 PM »
yeah, sorry - I have a JOBO and a Uniroller base.  Not familiar with Autolab and how you'd process with one.   :-\

O_A could you elaborate on your setup please, it may not show but I have asked in only the humblest way I know and said please as sincerely as possible.
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rdbkorn

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2009, 07:23:50 AM »
Ken,

If this is something you'll be doing for a short while because you have temporary access to 4x5, it might not make sense to purchase a tank specifically for processing sheet film. Like original_ann, I use a Jobo drum and uniroller base. But many people have found the "taco method" to be quite workable. You can process 4 sheets of film using a Paterson 4 system tank (the size would be for 2 120 reels). There is a discussion of various methods, including this one, here:

http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74039

If you scroll down, you can see a picture that shows how the sheet film is loaded into the tank. Googling will bring up plenty of other references to this method.

Cheers,
Paul

original_ann

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2009, 01:53:09 PM »
Hi Ken,

Just seeing your message - I'll gladly answer any questions and there's never a need to ask in the humblest of ways, bow or avoid eyecontact in the least!   :D 

Yes, I too am fairly new (less than a year) to LF.  And I've not yet used my setup.  It was at the suggestion of many others that I went ahead and searched for a used Uniroller on ebay  - - they can be had for very little.   On it  I will use a 2551 Jobo tank (with 2509 Jobo reels).   Tanks are ideal for me because I don't have a darkroom at the moment.

I tried to find some links to show you.  Only finding this one right now:  http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/

I *have* heard a potential for loss of tonal range with constant agitation and I'm a bit concerned about that, but I do intend to give it a go as soon as I can master loading the dang sheets onto reels in the dark (***is it just me, people or is this really difficult?? because I have been having a heck of a time trying to do this***). 


ThinkStopThink

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2009, 04:36:47 AM »
Hi Ken,

I've been doing B/W 4x5 for the last 6-7 years. I use the Unicolor system which you can pick up cheaply on that auction site. I have heard endless debate about constant agitation doing all kinds of terrible things to your film, but I think it's all a myth. I just cut 10-15% off of the film manufacturer's processing times (which is recommended in Ilford's literature) and d0 a short pre-wash with distilled water before developing (keeps the developer from affecting dry film if it splashes).

The hardest thing with the Unicolor tanks is coming up with the 'sheet film spacer' you see on the link original_ann posted. They are impossible to find any longer. I just went to the hardware store and found some stiff rubber sheet about 3/16" thick and cut my own. Two sheets of 4x5 slide in the tank, the spacer slides in, and then two more sheets.

Anyway, the Unicolor system is inexpensive and works quite well. If you go that route and have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them.

Oh yeah, Unicolor made tanks for roll film formats (I have one for 120 film and 35mm film) so you can standardize your processing for all the formats you shoot if you wish.

db

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2009, 01:21:47 AM »
G'day Ken
Glad you're finding your feet in London.

Personally I'm a bit of a LF MacGyver. I simply tray-dev my 5x4 sheets, hand shuffling if there are multiples. I've never used a Jobo, but I guess the tank lids have a hole in the top where they connect with the machine? Surely the Acme  Small Flexible Rubber Stopper Shop down on the high street could find you something to seal it up?

good luck (with finding cartons of imported Coopers)  er, and with yr snaps too.

Ken B: eyes, I just do eyes.

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2009, 09:44:53 AM »
G'day Ken
Glad you're finding your feet in London.

Personally I'm a bit of a LF MacGyver. I simply tray-dev my 5x4 sheets, hand shuffling if there are multiples. I've never used a Jobo, but I guess the tank lids have a hole in the top where they connect with the machine? Surely the Acme  Small Flexible Rubber Stopper Shop down on the high street could find you something to seal it up?

good luck (with finding cartons of imported Coopers)  er, and with yr snaps too.


Ta Don. Its funny that you should mention MacGyver, over the weekend I was wandering around after my wife and niece at Camden markets and I had this random thought while eating a doughnut  - what would Don do - must have been the rush of sugar.

Yes it occurred to me that you are quite resourceful in the way you do stuff and while pondering this it hit me  - I have about a dozen dip and dunk frames and all I have to do is get some cheap plastic containers to hang them in.

Or as you suggest get a rubber stopper for the Jobo tanks (they are very good system),  I have an excellent "everything you could possibly ever want" shop down the road from where I am living. SO I have some cheap ideas to research.

As for coopers, I had my birthday a couple of weeks a go and an Aussie mate here from Brisbane who has never tried coopers bought me some online from a local grog distributor,  thought this showed great form and now my fridge is full of Pale
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db

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Re: Beer question
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2009, 11:46:39 AM »
now my fridge is full of Pale

OK- I'll stop feeling sorry for you.  You can drink them out of those otherwise useless bl*** Jobo tanks.

Japan Exposures

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2009, 02:01:47 AM »
Hi, I have moved to Jobo tanks very soon after getting into LF so I am doing all my 4x5 and 8x10 in the Jobos.

I am not sure about the ATL-1000. If it takes 2500 series drums then get one of the Multitanks and the 4x5 sheet film insert/reel 2509N. The smaller tank takes one, the bigger two of these. Each takes six sheets.

There can be some issues processing with this from what I have read, can depend on the film in use and the strength of the polyester base. Kodak is pretty floppy so it may occur that films touch each other. In that case leave out once sheet and have a gap or make sure you have the 2509N with the flaps that are supposed to prevent this. The older reels do not have this flap, but I never had an issue.

Of course you can also use the Jobo Expert drums on a Uniroller base or a Jobo CPA or CPP, those are the best.

Don't bother with the other 4x5 inversion tanks (Yankee, Combi Plan). Most people hate them and get Jobo in the end.

Good luck.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 02:03:37 AM by Japan Exposures »

Ken B: eyes, I just do eyes.

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2009, 02:15:33 PM »
J_E thanks for that, I may very well bust out for the jobo expert drum and a uniroller. I have been considering Don's choice of a tray but I may not always have access to a full darkroom.

However no matter what I do I best go and do it and stop chatting about it.
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This-is-damion

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2009, 08:12:52 PM »
I had a few issues dev'ing 5 x 4, eventually bought a cheapo paterson tank (the one that takes 2 x 120 rolls) and then loop a hair band (one of the wifes i might add) round the film......its not ideal but it works. 

Very good to meet you last night,  we should try and do it again soon enough.   more wandering around, more beer. 

i have been very tired at work today....managed to get back for midnight.

 









Japan Exposures

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2009, 06:29:40 AM »
Yes, various tanks can be appropriated. I built an insert once for a Ilford 10x8 Cibachrome drum:

http://www.japanexposures.com/2004/12/21/drum-away-boy/

I think I was poor back then  ;)

You could do the same if you simply glued some sort of stoppers or ribs into the drum to hold the sheets in place. Paper drums are good and cheap substitutes for developing sheet film. I use a Jobo 2840 for 10x8 occasionally when I only want to do 1-2 sheets. The Cibachrome is good because it is cylindrical unlike the Patersons which are slightly conical.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2009, 06:32:54 AM by Japan Exposures »

Heather

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2009, 09:13:05 AM »
Hm must have missed this.
I've done the taco method and found it not ideal especially for Kodak sheet film as Kodak has the hardest to remove Anti-Halation layer known to mankind and the rubber band involved in the taco method means the non-emulsion side under the rubber band does not get washed enough.

I'm incredibly slow and process sheets one by one. I have two 2(35mm) reel Paterson tanks and I dry one inbetween agitations of the second one. A 4x5 sheet fits nicely in the 2 reel Paterson tanks sideways (4inch side being vertical and 5 inch side slightly curved around). The concave lid of the Paterson tank ensures that the film doesn't flop around too much but the liquid does freely move on both sides of the film to clear AH layers (Fomapan film also has AH layers). Just remember to put in the center column as that's part of the light trap and if you forget that, your tank is no longer light tight. Picture here: http://filmwasters.com/forum/index.php?topic=1918.msg16689#msg16689 You can sort of get two sheets in but I've had tiny "bruising" scratches of the film on the corners. Never into the actual image area but for contact printing, it wasn't ideal.

Since 4 sheets of 4x5 is equal to 1 roll of film, I reuse the solution as quickly as I can all in one session. I usually do 800ml of solution at 1:25 rodinal so 800ml water and 32ml Rodinal. Because it's also a minimum amount of 10ml per roll of film for Rodinal, I sometimes cheat and if I'm on a roll, I can get another "roll" equivalent out of the solution (so 8 sheets out of the 800 + 32ml solution).

It's all very haywire to most people but it works for my sheet film for my cyanotypes.
Heather
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Japan Exposures

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2009, 01:42:50 PM »
Mmmh, I use 10ml total of Rodinal in 500ml water all the time doing 10 sheets 4x5 or 5 8x10 as a one shot...

Heather

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Re: Gear question
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2009, 01:45:51 PM »
I'm pushing my film ever so slightly or at least looking for higher contrast for the cyanotypes, Dirk-san :) Probably should have noted that. I've found 1+25 is better looking to me than 1+50.
Heather
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