Author Topic: darkroom question  (Read 6452 times)

astrobeck

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darkroom question
« on: January 28, 2007, 11:09:46 PM »
and speaking of darkrooms in the basement.......
I'm working on house plans right now and will have a basement darkroom.

How are you guys draining them?

And any other must haves, that I should not overlook since I'll be building from scratch.

thanks in advance,
Becky

Phil Bebbington

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2007, 11:23:32 PM »
Mine is in the attic Becky....famously unused for 10 years, I know you can sense the shame! Keep something you need on a daily basis there...just to remind you the place exists then you won't be like me....car keys perhaps then you will need to go there and get them....thinking...Mmmmm must print some film. Seriously though, not sure what the regulations are in the US regarding the disposal of chemicals but I know at work where we did have a darkroom we were forced to get a professional company in to dispose safely of the chemicals as turning them down the drain was no longer an option, well not without a fine if we were found out!  I'm sure many still do that and take the chance but.......

susan Cunningham

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2007, 02:30:05 AM »
for some reason this 90+ year old house had an extra toilet and shower in the basement!!  The guy putting in the darkroom walls and plumbing for me thougth it was a great idea to use the drain from the toilet and I was thrilled to get rid of such a gross thing....(when we looked at the house last summer we saw the shower but not the toilet. it was hidden behind the shower. we found the toilet after we moved in! It worked but was too scary to use!)
I think that private darkrooms are not under any special regulations.  but I think it is better to drain into a public water system or even a septic system rather than just into the ground...

sec

susan Cunningham

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2007, 02:34:55 AM »
heres the before ....

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Phil Bebbington

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2007, 10:28:38 AM »
Wow...that's going to be such a cool space! I didn't think of the private versus commercial angle so you are probably right......also with commercial darkrooms they are using chemicals in such large amounts. Can't wait to see the after pics.

susan Cunningham

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2007, 05:49:55 PM »
 her is the progress so far on my basement darkroom! no more toilet!!  floors will be level!
sec (susan)

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Francois

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2007, 10:03:04 PM »
Susan, watch out with the horizontal 2x4's... you may end up with springy floors...
I hope you will be wall mounting the enlarger...
How big is that? 8 feet x 8 feet 8 inches?
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

Francois

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2007, 10:55:58 PM »
How are you guys draining them?
Lucky girl.. a custom darkroom...

For the drain, I just have a kitchen sink hooked up to the municipal sewer system. The tube goes under the concrete slab and joins the sewer cleanup cover at the front of the house. The pipe is well below the frost line. Make sure about this or you'll have problems for sure. If you talk to the city permits department, they'll tell you what the code is for the hook-up. From experience, the city guys are usually very nice. They'll give you all the info you need for the sewer depth.

Seriously though, not sure what the regulations are in the US regarding the disposal of chemicals
If I'm not mistaken, the regulation (clean water act) has a minimum volume of liquid and applies mainly to fixer. If you use very little, there should be no problem (just your conscience that will have to deal with it). A silver recovery system would get rid of the problem. The thing is that silver is a great sterilising agent that kills wildlife and bacteria as it is very toxic. In recovery systems, the silver is replaced by iron and is thus much less toxic. Recovery systems use either chemical reactions (uses the atom's own polarity to plate steel wool) or electroplating.

And any other must haves, that I should not overlook since I'll be building from scratch.
You need a good bathroom exhaust fan to get the chemical vapor out.
Make it big enough for a stool... makes things comfortable.
An enlarger projection well is a nice addition when big prints are needed.
Put in a good sound system, it makes it more enjoyable when you have music.
A nice big sink is very welcome. Even one made out of plywood or MDF will last for years when coated with marine epoxy.
I once saw in a magazine a picture where the owner had put a big plexi hood over the sink to suck the fumes directly out. Very ingenious.
A corner with no windows to block makes things easier
8x8 feet is a nice beginning. Mine is only 6x8 and is quite cramped.

Try and put your hands on:
Kodak publication KW-14
Building a home darkroom
ISBN 0-87985-273-9

It's very good. They show many darkrooms and give plans.

If you need some ideas, I can post some scans from a few books and magazines.
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

susan Cunningham

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2007, 12:08:37 AM »
Susan, watch out with the horizontal 2x4's... you may end up with springy floors...
I hope you will be wall mounting the enlarger...
How big is that? 8 feet x 8 feet 8 inches?

uh oh didn't think about springy floors... the floors are in today....
the back wall is about 10 feet and will have the 6 foot sink and about 4 feet of space for the besseler 45. 
Add another 5.5 ft for the light trap and that's the end of the house... (15.5 feet...)
the width; about 6.5 ft. 
Another must have : an equipment door. The light trap isn't big enough to get the big stuff out. We are just putting in a removable panel  on the long wall instead of an actual door.

I designed the space by taking all the good and bad designs of all the darkrooms I have been in...1st one was in 1975!! the worst was a bedroom closet clothing and all.
but 2 sources were a huge help
 The New Darkroom Handbook/ A complete guide to the best design, construction and equipment by Focal press 1998
also
View camera July august 2006  A great article "the ideal Darkroom"

here is todays progress altho' he (william) is still down there working
thanks  this is fun!!
susan

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susan Cunningham

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2007, 12:10:13 AM »
I guess that didn't work... only jojo got thru.
I'll try again

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astrobeck

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2007, 12:11:34 AM »
Thanks Francois for the info, and I'll check the publications you listed for more ideas.
I recycle, so recovery and environmental friendliness are a personal concern.

We have night time winter temps that get down in the minus numbers, so I have a quite a bit of anxiety about draining.

Big thanks for mentioning the sound system!
I had not thought of it, and I listen to music constantly.

 :)
astro
« Last Edit: January 30, 2007, 12:13:39 AM by Astrobeck »

Francois

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2007, 03:08:30 PM »
When you talk about draining, do you talk about damp wet basements?
Or even flooded basement?
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

astrobeck

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2007, 04:12:01 PM »
When you talk about draining, do you talk about damp wet basements?
Or even flooded basement?

No danger of dampness or flooding in this arid part of the world.

Too much dryness is the issue in my house.

astro

susan Cunningham

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2007, 06:39:09 PM »
When you talk about draining, do you talk about damp wet basements?
Or even flooded basement?

our basement is damp and in addition to the actual toilet/shower drain there is a drain that goes right into the ground under the house... and a  sump pump that pulls off some off this water so we don't see it on the floor.  the cinder-block walls are sealed with some sort of paint.  it all works well, but that is one reason we had to raise the floor in the darkroom. cuz the floor is so uneven from moisture.  it's like rolling hillsides down there
sec

susan Cunningham

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2007, 06:41:33 PM »
Susan, watch out with the horizontal 2x4's... you may end up with springy floors...
I hope you will be wall mounting the enlarger...
How big is that? 8 feet x 8 feet 8 inches?

we jumped up and down on the floors last nite... very solid!! phew

Francois

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2007, 08:56:12 PM »
We have night time winter temps that get down in the minus numbers, so I have a quite a bit of anxiety about draining.
Actually, if it's just frost you're worried about, it's not a problem for the sewers. Building codes take this into account (just like snow fall and such).
The main drain will exit the house below the frost line on the front of the house (unless you build on a corner parcel where things can be different) to join the city sewer system. The house will probably be surrounded at the bottom of the foundation by some geotextile covered perforated pipe so the foundation will be kept well drained (it's in the provincial building code).

What is usually the problem in cold environments is water supply pipes that freeze. This always happens when there are pipes running inside an exterior wall. Insulation is not good enough and the pipe freezes or sometimes bursts. You don't need to install a pipe warming wire (I live in cold Canada and don't have one). If the pipes are inside the house, you won't have any problems.

A well insulated basement is a must if money allowes it. If not, just an insulated exterior wall for the darkroom will be fine (2 if you build it in a corner). It keeps the pipes nice and warm, cuts on dampness, keeps temperatures more consistant and is easier to heat up. A digital thermostat with an electric baseboard are very nice. Dial in the temperature and it stays like that no matter what. When you're using chemicals that have been sitting on a shelf, you barely have to check their temperature (which is room temperature :) )  I even know a guy who did C-41 without a water bath! In the middle of January, he was going to the darkroom in sandals, shorts and a t-shirt :) And since the room is small, it doesn't cost much to heat the few degrees it might be missing. If it gets warm in Summertime, a central Air conditioning vent will be welcome. (But whatever you do, if you install central heating, don't put the furnace under the bedroom... unless you like sleepless nights...)

A level insulated floor is something I plan for my hopefully up and comming darkroom renovation. I currently have only a concrete floor which has a serious slope (normal, it goes to the basement floor drainage cap). It's hard on the legs, cold for the feet and I can't use an office chair with casters...

I hope it answers a few of your questions... Feel free to ask if you need more information.
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

original_ann

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2009, 02:12:03 PM »
All of this is so inspiring.  I have nothing to add as I don't have a darkroom and thought I'd never want to go back to that.  But just recently,  I've thought about putting a small one together in my basement and I'm living vicariously right now through the designs and ideas of everyone here! 


Francois

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2009, 03:51:39 PM »
Boy, that is an old thread!
Didn't even think it was still on the server...

Well, I'm glad you find it helpful :)
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

original_ann

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2009, 08:12:03 PM »
How funny - I hadn't noticed that it was 2 and a half years old!  It was bumped to the top of the forum list by the message posted right above mine!  (So I suppose the darkroom must have been finished - would have loved to see!)

Francois

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2009, 09:25:47 PM »
How funny - I hadn't noticed that it was 2 and a half years old!  It was bumped to the top of the forum list by the message posted right above mine!  (So I suppose the darkroom must have been finished - would have loved to see!)
Sadly, mine is still in the works... I'm up to something like the gazillion't version. But this time, I'm trying to be more clever with multifunction furniture... also trying to be a lot smaller.

One post that is worth taking a look at is Don's darkroom. Very inspiring. (and it's his fault if  I'm running once more through my plans ;) )
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

MarkBurley

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2009, 11:59:09 PM »
I am currently building darkroom number two. Trying to overcome some of the original problems at the same time.

I find a comfortable chair or maybe a stool is good. A fan over the sink and maybe the staining surface a must. I would have installed an underfloor heating unit to stop cold feet. And to keep overall ambient temps even. I have installed three concrete work areas/benches, two will hold existing enlargers - the third is a spare  - but think that the third will almost certainly hold my Parker UV vacuum unit for Platinum and Cyanotypes. All the chems will go into separate units for disposal. Washing units will empty into a private cesspit - thankfully this already exists.

I have a mate that has put in a new circuit breaker panel - so everything is isolated from the house. The concrete workspace means that nothing will vibrate. So should have a great excuse for no enlarger shake...

The new sink will hopefully be large enough to hold five 16x20 trays for dev and usual stuff. With a separate washing area/sink for two commercial washers. One 12x16 and one 16x20.

Mu guess is that I will finish it all - then some tart will come and buy the farm before I have had the chance to use it...

Obviously I am dreaming of my perfect darkroom - but actually I am three quarters of the way done...

Any darkroom for me must have a sound system, fridge, freezer and a radio that plays nothing but radio four...

Eccentric - yes certainly - but will post photos when finished. Then I will die and go to heaven happy...

Mark

original_ann

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2009, 02:05:05 AM »
Mark - pictures please!  This sounds fabulous and it must be great to do a "Take Two" to modify/improve upon the first go around.  Thanks for your detailed thoughts on this - I find them really helpful to consider if and when I'm able to do the same.

db

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2009, 01:32:19 PM »
Holy heck Mark-  :o I'm getting darkroom envy just reading about your project. Don't wait until it's all over- please post photo's of the progress too. Kinda like reality TV, we'll be waiting for the next episode. I'm just trying to imagine how big it's going to be.

I missed this topic first time around-  I'm sorry we never saw how sec's darkroom finished up

Speaking of darkroom envy, reminds me of my fave scene from the Sally Mann doco 'what remains' (I think was the name) where Sally is in this beautiful big darkroom printing her wet-plate negs.

LT

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2009, 10:53:25 AM »
All sounds great - let me know when you're done and I'll come and drool all over it for you, then take up squatters rights - and dont forget, I'll be a solicitor by then so you'll never get me out.  Mwahh ha ha ha ha.
 :D
 
L.

Francois

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Re: darkroom question
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2009, 03:47:36 PM »
Mwahh ha ha ha ha.
 :D
 
Leon, are you again rubbing your hands together like Mr. Burns?  ;)
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.