Topic: The Contraption 9: Anti-Newton's ring scanner film holder

[Francois]

Yep, time for a small project that started out with a minor annoyance which made me tick.
As you all know, Newton's rings are the concentric circles that appear when two perfectly flat surfaces are in contact together and light is shined through them. Well, When I got the "sprockets" negatives back from the lab, I had to scan my favorites so I would get the part of the image that the lab missed. And the only solution I had was to use my Epson's 120 scanning mask to hold the 35mm film down. And I think most of you can guess the results...

So, I went once again hunting for parts to build something. First order of the day, getting some anti-glare framing glass. I was lucky to find a fantastic piece of it in an ugly frame (with an even uglier picture in it) at a local charity shop. Price for the very "priceless" picture: 1$.

Then, I had to get this cut to the right size. So, on to the glazing shop I went. It was a slow day and the guy behind the counter was very surprised when I told him about the project. So, I'm extra lucky to have him cut it and sand the edges for free! Normally, for such a small job, it runs in the 2-5$ range so it's not even close to being a wallet breaker.

All that was left is to glue on some small vinyl protectors, use some black tape to mark where not to put the negative (making sure the calibration square is empty). And voilà!

To use it, I use a bit of transparent scotch tape with one end folded onto itself for easy removal. One piece on each side.

And let me tell you, it works gloriously. Sharpness is there. The pebbly surface of the Anti Newton glass is invisible to the eye.

So, there you have it... now all you have to do is just do it

[sapata]

Francois, this is wonderful !

But I've always thought that the glass should be clean transparent. I have a piece of glass taken from a broken "all in one" machine that fits perfectly in my scanner but is totally transparent. I was just wondering if this is a anti-glare type ?

[Francois]

Francois, this is wonderful !

But I've always thought that the glass should be clean transparent. I have a piece of glass taken from a broken "all in one" machine that fits perfectly in my scanner but is totally transparent. I was just wondering if this is a anti-glare type ?

Standard scanner glass is not anti glare. The anti-glare type has a pebbly surface and makes everything look extra fuzzy when you look through it. you can see it in my pictures when you look closely, especially the shot where the monitor is visible (my keyboard is just under the glass).

At first I would have thought the rough surface could possibly be a problem in reality it isn't. The uniform backlighting makes all the pebbles in the surface totally invisible. It also completely removes any possible problem with newton's rings since the surface is not even.

Here's an exploded view of a high resolution scan I did.

[sapata]

Right... Since I had the piece o glass already I decided to try anyway and so far worked ! No Newton rings at all ( if I ever met this Newton guy on the streets... ) .

The problem I have now is that darker stripe on the right corner, I guess I'm messing with the calibration of the scanner some how...

[astrobeck]

this makes me wonder why scanners don't have pebbly glass installed in them to begin with just for photos?

I seldom use mine to scan documents so it would be fine if the glass were anti Newton permanently.

Thanks for sharing your latest contraption.  It is a must have!
 

[sapata]

Another quick test after some adjustments, no Mr Newton as well here... I'm starting to believe that the reason for those rings are when the film is in total contact with the scanner bottom glass, since Francois had the idea of the piece of rubber in each corner, the film does not make contact with the glass which is exactly what happens with the original scanner mask.

Because the sprockets on this shot are black I had a bit of hard time to adjust the image as it came out very contrasty, I believe when the sprockets have the image recorded as well the scanner will take a better read of the file as a whole.

[greenstphotography]

Sapata, you are right Newton rings are caused by the reflection of light between the film and scanner glass.  That's why film holders typically suspend the film above the glass for scanning.  A typical mistake made by people scanning with film holders who are still seeing newton rings is they place the negative on the holder upside down.  Film pretty much always has some amount of curve to it, if you place the film in the holder curve side pointed toward the bottom scanner glass it will often come in contact with the glass and bam! newton rings.  Make sure if you are using a holder to place the film curve side up.

Here is a link to place I purchased my film holders, worth every penny! But if you aren't lazy like me you could probably easily construct something similar fairly easily.

http://www.betterscanning.com/scanning/mainintro.html

[Terry]

I also bought a holder from betterscanning and it works very well indeed.  But I can see that Francois' solution would work much the same and for about $90 less!  Well done.

[Nigel]

Francois, I've said it before but you are a genius! 

I think I have a piece of that glass at home from my previous failed attempt to beat infuriating Mr Newton. I tried sandwiching the neg between two pieces of glass and I could never get it to work with the dreaded rings. I'm going to be trying that out this weekend.

Go Francois!

[Suzi Livingstone]

I may have to get the mini tool kit out.. Francois where do you get those vinyl corner things from?

[LT]

here's a slightly less finessed and more "agricultural" solution to getting film rebates without having to put your film on glass:

two pieces of mount board with holes that match and are 1-2 mm smaller in height than the film width giving just enough to grip the film but leaving rebate visible.

Tape together one side so it opens out like a book. Place the neg between the cards, close and scan.  Simples.

Mine has a hole cut for 6x9 that I use for all 120 formats, one for 35mm at a horizon panoramic size that I use for both 35mm formats and one for 127.

Instead of doing it this way, you can cut the holes for specific sizes (6x6, 6x7 etc) which will give you similar ragged edges to filed out neg carriers in enlargements (see last pic).  

[Francois]

I may have to get the mini tool kit out.. Francois where do you get those vinyl corner things from?

I've found those at a variety of places around here. These ones came from the local Hypermarket... I've also got some which came from art supply stores, hardware stores, dollar stores (though these are cheaper).

They usually put them on a rack near the stick-on felt chair leg floor protectors (which would also work for this project).

The vinyl ones have an additional use: I always put them at the bottom of a picture frame so they make contact with the wall. It prevents the frames from moving around by themselves on the wall... helps everything stay level

[Suzi Livingstone]

I may have to get the mini tool kit out.. Francois where do you get those vinyl corner things from?

I've found those at a variety of places around here. These ones came from the local Hypermarket... I've also got some which came from art supply stores, hardware stores, dollar stores (though these are cheaper).

They usually put them on a rack near the stick-on felt chair leg floor protectors (which would also work for this project).

The vinyl ones have an additional use: I always put them at the bottom of a picture frame so they make contact with the wall. It prevents the frames from moving around by themselves on the wall... helps everything stay level

Good idea! I'm going to get some.. 

[sapata]

I'm sorry if Im being dumb coming back to this subject, but after scanning some Holga negs without the original holder I'm a bit concerned over the quality so I just want to make sure I'm definitely doing the right thing.

Ok... no newton rings in here but not sure about the sharpness I got from this roll, my Holga usually gives me very sharp results in the midle and I'm not getting this time so I just wanted to check:

Do I place the negatives on the bottom of the glass holder ?...between the scanner glass and the glass holder ?  emulsion up or down ? or do I place on the top of the glass holder ? again... emulsion up or down ?

I believe the light of the scanner comes from the top of the scanner... does it make any difference ?

Thanks...

[Francois]

The negative goes between the Anti Newton (AN) glass and the scanner's glass. There's a small spacer so they don't touch. The negative is taped to the AN glass. Emulsion up or down doesn't seem to matter much...

[sapata]

Thanks Francois, I'll do few tests and see...