Filmwasters
Which Board? => Main Forum => Topic started by: Ed Wenn on March 23, 2010, 12:57:10 PM
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OMG, I have just found out that with a bit of fiddling about it's possible to 'reclaim' a decent negative from the Fujifilm FP-100C and the larger 5x4 size FP-100C45 too. Has anyone here tried that? This is fantastic news....and I'm shocked I hadn't come across it before. Hmm, I think I'm going to be spending a lot of time monitoring Bob Crowley's blog (http://new55project.blogspot.com)
Here's a summary of his instructions for revealing the hidden negative:
"Once you get set up with a nice thick piece of glass, some gaffer's tape, and paper towel and plastic bag, the removal is easy.
- Tape it face down sealed all around (when dry)
- Cut three layers or so of paper towel to the size and lay them on the black back.
- Soak them with bleach - enough to make them wet all over and press into contact.
- Place a piece of plastic over that and then a book or something, and go have lunch.
- In a half hour, you can lift off the black goo with one swipe very cleanly.
- Then carefully clean the back with some windex.
- Peel up the tape and get out your loupe! Be amazed at how sharp it can be!
- Scan it in and wow."
Now I guess it'll take a few goes to get this right, but I'm very keen to give it a go. It'll be especially useful with the Silk finish because the Silk prints don't scan very well (dimpled surface looks great in the flesh, but not so great once scanned)...and getting the neg from a Silk print will therefore allow for better scanning (not to mention all the other cool stuff you can do with a large neg.
Did I say I was excited?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I've tested it out after finding out about it in this flickr thread:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/polaroid_/discuss/72157618948828028/
Definitely gives some interesting effects.
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scan scan scan scan!
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I've tested it out after finding out about it in this flickr thread:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/polaroid_/discuss/72157618948828028/
Definitely gives some interesting effects.
Did you use the same process as Bob outlines in my post, or did your technique differ? Also, how easy did you find it and are there any tips you want to pass on?
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Did you use the same process as Bob outlines in my post, or did your technique differ? Also, how easy did you find it and are there any tips you want to pass on?
I just had them face down on a piece of plastic and used bleach and a cotton ball. Took quite a bit of effort to clean that way, so the tape and paper towel method would be easier. The negs I tested with were all 3 years old and shot in a homemade holga back.
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i just gave it a quick try and must say its a better way than the way i used to do it ( soft brush and bleach ) so thanks for this.
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Ed! A wonderful discovery. My heart is all a flutter.
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Ed! A wonderful discovery. My heart is all a flutter.
Phil...I'm so pleased, you're pleased. As a big fan of Ivan The Terrible Kitten I can't wait to see what you get up to w/ this process.
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Thanks for posting about this. I am intrigued and looking forward to trying it too.
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this is lovely news! Will try it in a sec.... :)
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this is lovely news! Will try it in a sec.... :)
Cool. I'm about to have dinner. Will expect to see some results when I'm through with the cheese and biscuits at the end ;D
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Ed, will there be port as well? Whatever you don't rush it and leave out the port!
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gah!
I'm doing something terribly wrong!
The images have vanished!
All I have left is a VERY clear piece of plastic leftover.
:'( :'( :'(
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been meaning to try this for awhile...just too many camera-related things happening at once!
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Beck! I guess that is always the problem following written instructions, there is the need to assume we know what the other person meant! Of course, I know this will not deter you! I've just found some old dried up goop that I kept, so I will endeavour to give it a go the weekend. I'm sure Jan won't mind me removing one of the windows for glass!
In the mean time I don't intend sleeping until you get it right. Thank god for Makers Mark ;)
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gah!
I'm doing something terribly wrong!
The images have vanished!
All I have left is a VERY clear piece of plastic leftover.
DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT attempt to do this with your best work if you are trying this method for the first time. It may mean fatal....such as what Beckster did. I was first introduced to this process about two years ago by fellow Polaroid shooter, Michael Pasture. Whether or not he discovered this alone or found someone who did, is not clear. But he passed that information to me and I swore to never tell. I didn't. I thought he was sitting on a gold mine then with this secret. With time, he may have lead onto just what he was doing with these Fuji peel-a-parts and word got out and spread like butter. I thought it genius and the more the merrier. Also since then, I have seen other alternatives by trial and error by different folks.
Anyhow, I luckily had some of this film and gave it a try. My first try was horrid. Just as Beck found out, mine too vanished. The entire struck image was wiped away due to the heavy application of bleach and swipes. I almost choked. So I tried it again, this time use very little bleach and gentle swipes. One swipe to whiten the black surface...a gentle rinsing...then the second swipe back and forth lightly till a transparent image appeared. Yay, it worked!
Now scanning these things is anybodies guess and doing. To each is own and whatever works best for you is fine and dander. There is probably a hundred ways to scan these transparencies and who am I to tell you its either wrong or right. Everything works and Art Is Hard.
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Beck, thanks for this - it adds a bit of structure to the initial instructions. CAUTION seems the way forward until perfected to some level.
I am at least fired up enough to give it a try with some old crap I have laying around!
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This person on Flickr found that Milton baby bottle sanitizer removes the backing with no damage to the emulsion side:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ekoehler7/4457144168/
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Thanks for the link, Kuru. I'm assuming from the description Eddie includes on Flickr, that he bathes the whole neg in Milton solution and doesn't worry about just dabbing off one side?
I may have to ask him to comment on this. I have Milton tablets in the house all the time so this would be useful to know.
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Also, if anyone's interested I'd love to get hold of a video tutorial on how to do this for inclusion in a future Filmwasters video podcast. So if anyone ends up with a method which works for them and they're able to produce a succinct and entertaining video of it in action then that wuld be great. You don't need an expensive video camera either so don't let that block you.
Send me a PM if you want to take this further.
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Ed, it would be good to have it from the horses mouth so to speak. Perhaps specific questions will yield the right answers. The results look great though. Off to buy Miltons tomorrow.
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Well, I tried it again and had a bit better success, but think a video would be great! :)
One of the tricks is to figure out when to quit scrubbing the black stuff off as there seems to be multi layers of goop and if you go too far, then you have GONE TOO FAR and there's no going back.
Also a diluted bleach/water solution worked better.
The solution I worked with was 1 part bleach to 4 parts water.
This is a quickie shot of an old guitar I adopted from a thrift store yesterday....
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This is so interesting - I'd love to see a video once someone finds a 'formula' that works for them...
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Good try, Becky. Obviously the dilution has made it slightly easier. Looking forward to trying the Milton solution or see the others results if I'm a bit slow.
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Tried this a while ago based on something I found on the web and had no problems at all. Went for it again this afternoon to see if it wasn't just beginners luck and the whole process took about 5 minutes. At the ready are a stiff brush of about a quarter of an inch, glass that fits into your sink, waterproof tape, bleach and a hairdryer.
Firstly tape up the negative side and if you still have the print side I would leave it in situ.
Required is a tape that will not leak, cheap 99 pence duct/gaffer tape I would not recommend. Go for the more expensive strong stuff. Electrical tape may also suffice but do a test first as the problem I guess most people are having is the leakage.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j68/starboy64/Photos/P1050780.jpg)
Use strong pressure to get a tight seal, place in the sink and cover with only enough thick bleach to cover the surface area.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j68/starboy64/Photos/P1050781.jpg)
Brush lightly and evenly [important] for about a minute or more (the brush seems to agitate the black backing which helps) and just rinse with warm water.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j68/starboy64/Photos/P1050782.jpg)
Drain and use a hairdryer set on warm to clear the excess water of the print and glass. Peel away and shazam....
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j68/starboy64/Photos/P1050788.jpg)
The image was from a slide printer on to FP100c (Silk) so this is just a second generation negative. An image straight from a camera would be sharper...
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j68/starboy64/Photos/P1050.jpg)
I do not have the required scanner to take this any further but by taking a picture of the negative when on a light panel with my digital camera and using the [negative] option on my limited software I know it works.
Now for a decent scanner and remember the 7 P's [Proper Prior Planning Prevents Pi55 Poor Performance]
Original slide
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j68/starboy64/Photos/TYPE.jpg)
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Astounding. Nice work Miller.
I'm calling in at Wenn mansions on the weekend, so depending on how mashed we are after the methodrone kicks in, we will hopefully give this a go.
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Miller, you are a wonderful person and if it were possible I'd offer to give birth to children for you!
I think even I can follow these instructions.
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I followed a very similar procedure to miller's a few weeks ago
used a q-tip and household bleach to clean the back of the black
and really wasn't very careful while doing it
rinsed in water, no other chemicals
then I realized my epson v500 can't do that size of scan...so scanned half on the 120 row, then the other half and stitched in photoshop
happy with the result...might try more of these soon
negative
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4042/4414674610_d246b24885.jpg)
positive
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2780/4414674356_b859226556.jpg)
my flickr polaroid set
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sanblaspdx/sets/72157623074644833/
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Thank you Miller! Your images make it so easy to understand and follow! Do you have any problems trying to remove the tape after the fact or did it come off easily?
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Sean : Well ingenious with the stitching and nice work.
Phil: Thanks for the offer but unless you also intend to pay for their upkeep I will have to decline.
Ann: Easier than peeling a Polaroid. I wanted a clean negative which may not be edgy for some but I'm old skool first.
Hope the image below shows this and you boys stay of the meth'...
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j68/starboy64/Photos/P1050787.jpg)
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Damion and had had a bash at this process last night after band practice (using 'The Miller Method') and it went really well.
:D :D :D
We did some filming (natch), but I'm not sure that much of it is usable...anyway, thanks, Miller, and everyone else for sharing your tips on this process. It's great. Will post more info and results after the weekend. I have a few busy days ahead of me.
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Quick question y'all....how does one scan one of these reclaimed negs? Damion and I have about 10 to play with, but I think I'm missing the point re how to scan them...and although I say it myself, I'm no dummy when it comes to using the scanner. I have an Epson Perfection 3200 flatbed with an overhead light source for scanning transparencies. Using the standard negative transparency setting I get the purple/blue image below. If I then invert this I get the green/yellow image which starts to look usable once converted to b/w, but I'm clearly missing a step somewhere because I'm not getting the correct colours.
Is our technique wrong when it comes to the bleach bath part, or is it the scan that isn't right?
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Ed,
Are you scanning the negs as color or b&w?
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Wow Miller, those were great instructions! Have you contacted Fuji about this? Maybe they'd want you to write an article about it, maybe for their website. Anything like that, that finds more uses for the film & encourages more people to use it helps keep them making it (for all of us!)
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Ed,
Are you scanning the negs as color or b&w?
I'm scanning them as colour.
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Wow Miller, those were great instructions! Have you contacted Fuji about this? Maybe they'd want you to write an article about it, maybe for their website. Anything like that, that finds more uses for the film & encourages more people to use it helps keep them making it (for all of us!)
Yeah, the instructions were spot on. We've made a video how-to as well, but I want to crack the scanning before I start editing the process together (Miller gets lots of credit during the filing ;D).
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That negative shown looks like much more "density" than I expected. I'm almost curious as to if they'd work for alt prints (like for cyanotypes). I'll have to try to make one of these negatives and try it out.
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Looks like you have that neg looking sweeeet. Cannot help with the scanning issues but as you could see once I hit 'Negative' on my limited Photoshop software the image corrected perfectly. Guess we need to speak to some techie at digitalwasters.com
Sorry I could not take more pictures of the process but doing two things at once is not my forte and as for credit, well that belongs to Ed for starting this thread and I hope Will Smith is playing me in the movie..... ;)
Mlr
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Maybe scanning as negative with the "correct color" box checked would work (in Epson Scan)?
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busted out the polaroid 195 at a wedding yesterday...recovered three of the negatives today
I'm happy with the way they came out and I'm being intentionally a little sloppy with them to accentuate the look
http://www.seanmophoto.info/blog/?p=313
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Sean, the intentional sloppy handiwork looks great! Great move using the 195 at the wedding as well.
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Okay, I considered private emails and then thought making a public spectacle of myself might be cleansing!
I have tried this 3 times and am getting nothing - I'm taping it down on glass, black side up, putting bleach on and have tried on three photos. The first I left for just over a minute and the last at least 4 minutes and yet when I wash the bleach off I still can't see through the neg. Am I doing anything wrong? Before you ask I am not using gin instead of bleach! I was just loathed to leave it on more than 4 minutes as most are saying a minute or a bit longer!
Are you using ordinary household bleach?
I was also agitating the bleach a tad with a brush which gradually dissolved, so I know it is capable of dissolving something! Also, when you brush the back can you see it visibly come off?
Not sure of the film though - does it only work with fuji as this might be 669. MMmmmm pondering :'(
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I'm not an actual polaroid film expert, but I don't think this works with 669
I actively brush the black back with a q-tip soaked in bleach quite hard...I've read on flickr that the negative is quite durable
I haven't really been soaking...more like painting with bleach
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I guess the thread does say Fuji!
I have just checked and I am using Polaroid 669 - so I can confirm that if it does work it will need a lot longer soaking/scrubbing. I feel cleansed, thank you all for listening - perhaps I will go and shoot some Fuji now!
Or have a gin.
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here are some of the links/info I found months ago that help explain this process
there are multiple threads on flickr,
http://www.flickr.com/groups/polaroid_/discuss/72157622400355632/?search=100c+negative
http://www.flickr.com/groups/polaroid_/discuss/72157620272828141/?search=100c+negative
http://www.flickr.com/groups/polaroid_/discuss/72157618948828028/
also, there is a wedding/portrait photographer in CA that has had a lot of success with this and is also getting negatives out of the 100b black & white film
http://www.twinlenslife.com/2009/11/instant-b-negatives-from-fuji-pack-film.html
http://www.twinlenslife.com/2009/10/unhidden-treasure-recovering-instant.html
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Whoah! Lots of food for thought there, Sean. Thanks for posting the links. Still working my way through them. I love the fact that someone's gotten a neg out of the FP-100 b/w film...that's pretty big news.
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yeah the 100b looks much more labor intensive...and I don't shoot that film very often myself so haven't tried it yet...its much easier to just scan the goop sides of the 3000b :)
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I've updated my workflow posts FWIW
http://new55project.blogspot.com/2010/04/blog-post_6525.html
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Thanks bobcrowley! Do you use paper towels to apply the glass cleaner or something else?
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I did use paper towels for the bleach step and got a textured border, which I left in place when I cleaned up the center with glass cleaner and more of the same paper towel.
More about it at http://new55project.blogspot.com
[Sorry, image deleted during forum software upgrade. Please re-upload if so inclined.] Did that - notice that when u click on the image the curves change, interesting new sw. Thanks
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Nice one, Bob. Thanks for adding this to the thread.
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Beautiful and inspiring!
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I also tried it! Simple what I did. Remove the goop with cold water and fingers. Tape plus glass (I need to find a stronger tape), paper towels, lots of bleach, weight. 20 minutes. Remove with paper towel. Water to clean and rinse..
Original and Negative.
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Dribbling with the need to try!
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Hey, I finally found a few minutes to try my hand at scanning one of the negs that Damion & I recovered during the filmimg we did for the next video podcast (almost done BTW) and had more luck. I think the negs I started out with were too dense after all (or underexposed). This one produced a much better result. Still signs of chemicals a la a goop scan, but very cool nonetheless. I'll be using this process again for sure now that I've managed to get a half decent scan.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3173/4593083877_993379bca2.jpg)
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finally got around to trying this...super easy and love the results! Did a quick blog post about it:
http://moominsean.blogspot.com/2010/12/reclaimed-fuji-intant-negs.html
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'Tis a fine process innit!
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Sean, thanks for taking the time to do it.
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well i tried it out at last :)
i used a picture of me that my husband took today (taken to see if he could nail the focus on my eye).
it was colour fp100 but i converted to b/w.
i only gave the bleach 20 minutes because i was too impatient :)
anyway for a first attempt i really like it and prefer it to the positive...i'll choose a picture i like next time.
thanks for the very clear instructions!
(this has come out really soft on here...you can see it bigger here if you're interested.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/janeway/5339494020/)
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Wow, you're right Vicky - I have been so lazy about bleaching my negs and I think I need to get on the ball! This is a lovely straightforward portrait.
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Gorgeous Vicky! I need to get to my negs too.
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I'm going to revive this thread. It's been about 6 months or so since the last bits of conversation on reclaiming fuji negatives. I've been having fun with the reclaiming part... but the scanning is just a bunch of confusion for me. I've tried SilverFast and Vuescan. Sometimes the colors are so off, there is no getting a workable image even with considerable color adjustments. This is frustrating because the first one I ever scanned rendered so beautifully and I can't recall what settings I used that made it so effortless.
Realizing this is not a 'one size fits all' or an exact science. But how about some successful scanning tips? What film profile do you assign? I've tried Agfa color films, Fuji NPS, Kodak 160NC just to name a few - each has their own cast/correction and again, it's all hit or miss.
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Hi Vicky, I have not bleached my FP100C negatives for a while (maybe because I haven´t shot 100c for a while..) but I remember couple of things. If your negative is fully workable, meaning that there is a lot of info in it (because you shot one or two steps underexposed) there there is no problem getting a ¨true¨color rendition, still you will have to play with levels in the scanning preview, and you will see that the color temperature varies a lot. I attach the room shot with Elena which looks normal. If your negative does not have lots of info then you will not be able to obtain a full color rendition but only yellowish to greenish results, not matter how much you play with it, that would be my second shots with the palm trees.
So, I would say that playing with level helps, and also sometimes applying color correction too 8)
PD But to be honest I think the second shot tones were due to the fact that I could not match the correct colour..
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I have a question....
Why specifically do you need to use a piece of glass to tape the neg to?
This is probably a stupid question - but im going to ask regardless
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my understanding is that -
you only want to bleach the back side of the neg
&
the glass is handy also to check if all the dark matter
has been bleached.
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cool. I guess the only thing thats stopping me doing this is the lack of a bit of glass that im not currently using as a window.
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Just "borrow" your wife's hand mirror ;)
I'm sure she'll be happy to see all the black gunk on the frame :P
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Alan is correct. The Glass helps to check your work with the bleach.
Also I found that temperature and bleach time doesn't really matter. I usually dump a dollar sized amount of bleach in the middle of my negs and spread it around with an old toothbrush. Wait about a minute and start scrubbing and rinsing it off. The black backing comes off a lot easier than lead to believe
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8282/7869208724_a5c3786b4e_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lovelyjm/7869208724)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8174/8042089201_f5b9805d5f_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lovelyjm/8042089201)
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In case anyone hasn't seen it...
Bleaching Fuji FP-100B negative (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7diQfXiTfBg#ws)
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Nice one sean ill be trying this next time around :D
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I'm wondering if it works with hydrogen peroxide?
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I took the glass out of an old 3x5 photo frame that I wasn't using and it's the perfect size. I use gel bleach and rubber gloves and just use my fingers to gently rub in little circles. I do 3-4 passes and all the black comes off. Most of the negatives have scanned well - as mentioned it's better to slightly underexpose to get a better recovered negative - but the last two I tried to recover scanned terribly. I'm not sure why. I actually had quite a few problems with the last two packs of 100C I shot. I thought my camera was effing-up, which it might very well be, but I haven't ruled out the film. Maybe a bad batch? Hrmmmm...
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What do you do about the developing chemical goo on the other side of the negative? Does this work with FP-3000b?
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What do you do about the developing chemical goo on the other side of the negative? Does this work with FP-3000b?
Doesn't work on the 3000B. You can scan it and convert it to a positive, but bleaching it will just take everything off. The 'film' part is actually an opaque white, not clear like the 100C. (Yes, I found this out the hard way :) )
As for the goo - the first time I bleached a negative, I took it off because it got all messed up anyway, and the negative image was still on the film, so I figured it was okay to remove the goo. Even though the negatives seem to come out fine, though, I still wonder in the back of my mind if it's 'right' or not.
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You can wash the goo off of 100C without any worries. The image is pretty well embedded and will only sometimes start to peel along one edge. 100B is much more fragile and you can wash the emulsion right off the plastic without much effort. But I scrub all the goop off the 100C with my fingers.
Like said above, none of this works with 3000B, but it has its own negative already from the "throwaway" side of the peel.
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Still feel indebted to Sean for his video. Best method I've tried. Simple and effective.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5503/11229364594_ba185d6686_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/adoephoto/11229364594)
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You just don't want to do like I did last night: I dropped a bleached FP-100B on the floor of my drying cabinet before hanging it to dry. I had to re-wash it this morning and carefully remove a ton of specks of saw dust from the emulsion side... And I thought I had cleaned-up that floor when I built that cabinet :-\
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In case anyone hasn't seen it...
Cheers, Sean. That is so simple I feel like I might want to try it again after all this time. And BTW, do you only ever shoot videos in your pyjamas?
;D ;D
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You just don't want to do like I did last night: I dropped a bleached FP-100B on the floor of my drying cabinet before hanging it to dry. I had to re-wash it this morning and carefully remove a ton of specks of saw dust from the emulsion side... And I thought I had cleaned-up that floor when I built that cabinet :-\
Doh! Hope you got it cleaned up eventually.
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Well... I did remove most of the big chunks. I had to re-wet the film and got quite a few scratches on the emulsion.
Somehow, I found it relatively funny to see my film look like a mixture of stuck-on porridge and worn out sandpaper!
Thankfully, Photoshop's dust and scratches filter managed to remove a lot of it.