Filmwasters

Which Board? => Main Forum => : LT May 25, 2011, 05:53:38 PM

: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: LT May 25, 2011, 05:53:38 PM
I think I've just about mastered it .... finally.

These were all shot indoors on a bright day,  and exposure calculated by average metering and rating the paper at ISO 0.8 (yes, I really said 0.8!!! - think that might be a problem with my meter).  Anyway, that equated to a 45 second exposure at f 5.6, then a further 20 seconds at f22 though a total diffusion filter as a post-flash to control contrast (needed a bit more of this I think - probably 45 second would have been better):

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3130/5758521557_ff88abbb79_z.jpg)

 
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2731/5759065858_8f5b2884c1_z.jpg)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2001/5759065592_dd296b527b_z.jpg)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2052/5759064962_4dd0df7876_z.jpg)

got there in the end  :D



: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: DS May 25, 2011, 08:30:28 PM
Cool. Glad you made it work. Itching to try this...
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: Heather May 25, 2011, 08:32:32 PM
Yay!! :) Looks awesome. Gotta love the backwards clock ;)

Oh so you're kind of flashing in-camera? Do you just stick some tracing paper over the lens or something?
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: gothamtomato May 25, 2011, 08:36:34 PM
I'm not familiar with this paper: Are you using it to make paper negatives? Or actual prints? Do you have to cut it to fit it in the film holders or does it come the right size to fit in a 4x5 holder? And how do you process it?

Thanks!
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: LT May 25, 2011, 08:39:52 PM
Thanks guys. Heather - yes, exactly that. It's a Lee gel snap holder with 2 layers of greasproof baking parchment. 
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: LT May 25, 2011, 08:55:50 PM
I'm not familiar with this paper: Are you using it to make paper negatives? Or actual prints? Do you have to cut it to fit it in the film holders or does it come the right size to fit in a 4x5 holder? And how do you process it?

Thanks!

Here is Ilford's tech data sheet:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2010827171602436.pdf (http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2010827171602436.pdf)

It's a positive paper - in other words, the brighter the light that hits it, the lighter the tone on the paper. So you can use it in camera, and get a mono image that is in the positive - no need for a negative intermediate stage.

It's available in RC or FB and is developed in normal mono paper developers (I used Bromophen here).

I'm using the 3.9 x 4.9 inches size  (I think this is only avaiilable in the FB type)- just the right size for 5x4 double darkslide holders, in my 5x4 camera. You can get it in all sorts of sizes and cut it down to to fit if you prefer. 

It's certainly good fun, once you get control of it - it is quite feral, so needs a bit of taming.

hope that explains it.
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: Francois May 25, 2011, 09:10:52 PM
Good to see you finally got the hang of it :)
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: Soap May 25, 2011, 09:29:46 PM
Loving the look. A horizontal flip after scanning on the clock maybe ;D?. Anyway its cool as hell and makes me itch for trying. ::)
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: Mike (happyforest) May 25, 2011, 09:36:38 PM
Leon

Glad to see that you have cracked it.

Like other's I like the clock but I also like the tap.

Thanks also for the link to the tech data sheet.  I haven't found this before when I've looked at how to use this paper.  (Just looking at present)

Anyway why did you choose to post flash rather than pre-flash as suggested in the tech data sheet?

Did you carry out a test strip to determine the post flash exposure?

Mike
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: gothamtomato May 25, 2011, 10:19:40 PM
Thanks! I don't know why I haven't heard of this before.

I'm going to have to try it. It seems like it would be perfect for my 4x5 pinhole camera.
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: LT May 25, 2011, 10:58:55 PM
Soap - I chose not to flip the scan as it would not represent the print if I did. A bit like with wetplate and tintype processes, it would feel wrong to use a digital method to 'correct' an integral characteristic.

Mike - pre or post won't make any difference, both do an identical job. I didn't do a test strip as I did the flashing in camera. I often flash film in the same way if the subject brightness range is too great to be recorded using a normal exposure - works well when shooting in woods in bright light for example. The idea is to expose to non image forming light to get the film or paper to only just respond, so you are looking for the least amount of light that makes the film/paper respond to just above total black. The best way is to use a total diffusion filter, take a light Reading through it, then reduce this by 4 stops (either by time or using the aperture control) then make the exposure through the filter. Then remove the filter and expose to the scene as you would normally. The contrast range will be compressed. This is also called a zone 1 pre/post flash exposure if you want to get all Ansel about it.   
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: sapata May 25, 2011, 11:22:05 PM
Well done Leon! The results are pretty good indeed... :)

I still have some paper left, I should try next time the pre flash thing.
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: Ed Wenn May 25, 2011, 11:39:21 PM
Thanks! I don't know why I haven't heard of this before.

I'm going to have to try it. It seems like it would be perfect for my 4x5 pinhole camera.

The reason this is such a big deal is that Leon and I shot a segment for the most recent video podcast where we struggled to get decent results from this paper. It's worth watching for some context and Leon explains the paper's properties a little too (http://filmwasters.com/podcast (http://filmwasters.com/podcast)).

Leon: Well done, The Druid. Glad you're using that revision time so well  ;) I'm impressed that you didn't give up on DPP. Bl**dy good show. It looks like you'll need to pop up to Wenn Mansions after your exams for a re-match!
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: formica May 26, 2011, 06:08:09 AM
these look fantastic. i've been very curious about this paper since hearing about it.

              william
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: Heather May 26, 2011, 07:56:52 AM
Soap - I chose not to flip the scan as it would not represent the print if I did. A bit like with wetplate and tintype processes, it would feel wrong to use a digital method to 'correct' an integral characteristic.

I think he's implying to be totally true to wot it is in-camera, it should be upside down, like it is when you look at the ground glass :) Hence horizontal flip (not vertical/mirror flip) ;) My brain is so messed up sometimes I'm flipping the image over to be "correct" in my head and thinking it looks right-side up sometimes when I've been working too long with the ground glass LF stuff.

I did think when you said after Photographica that you were getting 1second exposure times it sounded a bit off but I didn't want to speak out of turn about it since I thought you had a fancy meter and all and maybe had the biggest aperture I've ever heard of (!)... My meter only goes down to ISO25 and then I knock off another 2 stops to get down around to ISO 3 when exposing for ortho film which is similar to paper speeds.
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: Mojave May 26, 2011, 04:01:21 PM
These are gorgeous Leon!
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: jojonas~ May 26, 2011, 10:02:25 PM
too late for a lengthy write up of all the feelings and thoughts running through my head. so I'll give you this much... YOU DA MAN! hahaha :D
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: Fragomeni May 31, 2011, 12:13:47 AM
Looks great! I've got some of this on the way that I'll be testing and eventually using in my 20x24. I do a lot with paper negatives and this paper is designed very similarly to regular silver paper. A good workflow to manage the paper's tendency toward high contrast is to 1. test for speed, 2. expose through either a yellow filter or an 85a filter which will bring down the contrast, 3. test for development dilutions which will allow you to control the rest of the contrast degree. Using this workflow you can produce paper negatives and in this case positives with complete control and of a quality that will rival conventional silver prints. This is my paper neg workflow and I shared it with a friend working with the direct positive paper and he confirmed that it indeed works the same way as for paper negs and gives you complete control over it. Good job and good luck!
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: sapata May 31, 2011, 01:41:30 AM
.... I've got some of this on the way that I'll be testing and eventually using in my 20x24...

I'm really looking forward to see the results! :)
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: original_ann May 31, 2011, 02:03:22 AM
Awesome, Leon!  These images are beauuuteeful, particularly the clock! 

Thank you for sharing the particulars about flashing paper (or film for that matter).  I've never done and have always wanted to know how. 
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: johann May 31, 2011, 06:23:55 AM
Great results !

I find it difficult to expose paper correctly, so i did some tests by pulling the dark slide only a couple of centimeters every exposure, to get a test strip like you would do under an enlarger.
But i guess this is less useful as we know the iso. Is it really 3 ?
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: Suzi Livingstone May 31, 2011, 09:27:09 AM
I love the surreal clock.
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: Yaniv Waissa June 02, 2011, 10:04:30 PM
nice stuff !!! looks really interesting- I think I'll check this paper
:)
: Re: Success at Last: Harman Direct Positive Paper
: LT June 03, 2011, 08:06:19 AM
Looks great! I've got some of this on the way that I'll be testing and eventually using in my 20x24. I do a lot with paper negatives and this paper is designed very similarly to regular silver paper. A good workflow to manage the paper's tendency toward high contrast is to 1. test for speed, 2. expose through either a yellow filter or an 85a filter which will bring down the contrast, 3. test for development dilutions which will allow you to control the rest of the contrast degree. Using this workflow you can produce paper negatives and in this case positives with complete control and of a quality that will rival conventional silver prints. This is my paper neg workflow and I shared it with a friend working with the direct positive paper and he confirmed that it indeed works the same way as for paper negs and gives you complete control over it. Good job and good luck!

great tips - thanks for that.  I'll definitely be using those to help tweak things.  I;ve got some plans for this paper.