Topic: Zeiss / Hasselblad "FLE" lenses

[Late Developer]

Just a quick question. Does anyone have one of these "floating lens element" lenses? If so, how do you get the best out of it? I've read conflicting suggestions as to how to focus properly.

One suggestion is to focus on the subject with the FLE focus ring set to infinity and then re-set the FLE ring afterwards. Another I've seen suggests setting the FLE focus ring first and then focusing on the subject afterwards.

Which is correct? Do they both work? I'd be grateful for some guidance on this please. My lens came without a manual and I don't want to waste film guessing or having to swite down which shot was made at which setting - unless I absolutely have to.

Thanks.

Paul.

[original_ann]

Paul I checked and I couldn't find anything in the Hasselblad downloads in the hasselbladusa.com site.  Which lens is this exactly? You may be able to go there yourself and register, go to either tech support or the forum and get the right information if no one here is able to assist.  Good luck!

[Francois]

I know Nikon built a similar lens with Defocus control which was aimed at portrait photographers.
Here's the link to their instructions
http://www.nikonusa.com/pdf/manuals/lenses/AF/AFDC105f2D.pdf

I haven't read them but I feel the Nikon lens is probably used in a similar manner as the Hasselblad lens.

[Pete_R]

Not that I've ever used one but my understanding is you can do it either way. If you set the FLE ring to infinity and then focus, then adjust the ring, you will need to check the focus again afterwards. So, as long as you know the approximate distance to the subject it probably makes sens to set the FLE ring first. But you do need to know the distance to the subject which is why you might focus first to ascertain what it is.

[Phil Bebbington]

Paul, have you tried calling the Hasselblad service department In Eltree? They are very generous with their advice and have talked me through  several repairs over the phone for free rather than me have to send the camera there and pay. I have always found them very friendly. I have even called them with how to issues. 02087313250

[original_ann]

Boy Phil, I wish Hasselblad USA's tech support was so generous.  They are nice people but they LOVE to generate cash. 

[Phil Bebbington]

Ann, on one call  where I had the lens stuck on the camera they told me there were two ways, send it to them or, if my nerve was good and I had a very small screwdriver they would talk me through it- it was hilarious and it worked!

[Late Developer]

As ever, thank you to one and all for your words of wisdom and advice.

The Nikon manual says to set the defocus ring before focusing, so as their lens is intended to have the same effect, this seems like a good starting point. I will also use Peter's suggestion for the last few frames and record what I did so I can compare against the first frames and see what works / works best.

The lens I have is a 40mm CF FLE T*  It has a 93mm filter thread (about the size of an average dustbin lid) so I dread to think how much filters might be for it - or even an adapter to use my Lee filter system. The image the lens gives me looks stunning through the viewfinder but the FLE doesn't "appear" to make much difference to the naked eye. From what I was told, it makes a big difference when you see the prints.

Anyway, my wife has bought me some film for Christmas, so I shall be giving it a serious work out.......

Thank you all again and best wishes.

Paul.

[Pete_R]

My understanding is the Nikon lens isn't doing the same thing. It uses the floating element to alter the out of focus areas, probably by altering the spherical abberation correction which will change the look of the out of focus areas either in front or behind the subject, depending which way the correction is shifted (I'm trying to avoid the use of the 'B' word here).

The FLE lenses are about making corrections to suit the distance the lens is focussed on to get the best (sharpest?) image. Lots of lenses have floating elements for this reason but usually they're linked to the focus control so are adjusted automatically. I don't know why the Hassy lens has a manual control.

Don't know if that makes sense.


BOKEH!

Oops, sorry, it just slipped out.

[Late Developer]

Thanks Peter.

Whilst I'm not disputing what you've told me, when I bought the lens, the chap at the shop said that the defocusing ring is there to allow me to throw the foreground to subject or the subject to infinity out of focus - which seems more akin to the description of how the Nikon operates. I'm just not sure of the sequence I need to follow to test what actually happens when I engage the defocusing ring.

The defocusing ring has 3 settings. At one extreme it is infinity to around a metre, there's a "click" in the centre at about 1 metre and then at the other extreme it's 0.9 - 0.5 metres. Which sort of begs the question "which setting do I need the defocusing ring to be at if I just want to use it as a standard 40mm wide angle lens"?  I presume the infinity end of the scale....?

I've just had a bit of a play with the lens and, despite focusing and defocusing in various sequences, it doesn't seem to make a ha'penny of difference through the viewfinder. Maybe it's more pronounced when stopped down?

I'm intrigued. I'll definitely have to have a play with this lens at various settings and see if there is any difference or if, in fact, the defocus ring is just a decoration!

[Pete_R]

I could be completely wrong then.

Mamiya made some lenses with seperate control of a floating element for the RB. The RB has bellows focussing so it's not possible to link the floating element to the focus. I always thought the floating element was to improve the results and assumed the Hassy ones were the same.

Pause for quick search...

Just had a look at the Zeiss site which says "Floating elements (FLE) for increased performance in the near range". That doesn't sound like the Nikon lens. Maybe the guy in the shop was getting confused with the Nikon lens.

Edit: I just found this as well...

"DISTAGON CF F/4 40MM (FLE)
IN SPITE of the wide aperture, wide angle of view and long focal length of this lens, distortion has been kept at a remarkably low level - making this lens suitable even for critical architectural photography. The floating lens element (FLE) design enhances image quality at close range. The two floating front elements are moved by means of a secondary focusing ring with three click stops: infinity - 2m, 2m - 0.9m and 0.9m - 0.5m.. This lens is ideal for interior or architectural photography. Its broad angle of view are especially good for these kind of application. Though, have to be careful on its slight exaggerated perspective. The floating elements design opens up more photographic oppurtunities in close up photography without the compromised decrease in image quality."

[Ed Wenn]

BOKEH!

Oops, sorry, it just slipped out.

I love photograpy-related jokes and this made me laugh out loud. Great timing (I know it's written, but I feel the timing was perfect). There's a sitcom floating around here somewhere about a bunch of socially inept photo geeks. I think it would be hilarious...unfortunately, the amount of people who would get jokes like Peter's is not exacrly huge.

[Late Developer]

Entirely possible that the chap in the shop assumed it works like the Nikon as they also sell a hell of a lot of Nikon, Peter.

I've just had a hunt round the interweb and found this:

http://www.hasselbladinfo.com/forum/archive/index.php?t-1990.html

Not sure why I didn't find it before but it seems to concur with your interpretation.

"Estimate the distance, set the index to the range, then focus normally." and
"You focus, set the FLE ring to the appropriate range, and then refocus."

are the instructions on use. I'll probably end up using the first instruction and see how I get on.

[Late Developer]

BOKEH!

Oops, sorry, it just slipped out.

I love photograpy-related jokes and this made me laugh out loud. Great timing (I know it's written, but I feel the timing was perfect). There's a sitcom floating around here somewhere about a bunch of socially inept photo geeks. I think it would be hilarious...unfortunately, the amount of people who would get jokes like Peter's is not exacrly huge.

Ed, Peter's jokes are "Bokeh" with me, too!!

[Pete_R]

I love photograpy-related jokes and this made me laugh out loud. Great timing (I know it's written, but I feel the timing was perfect). There's a sitcom floating around here somewhere about a bunch of socially inept photo geeks. I think it would be hilarious...unfortunately, the amount of people who would get jokes like Peter's is not exacrly huge.

You see Ed, I'm not angry, just socially inept with a weird sense of humour. I'm changing my tag line...

[original_ann]

You'll have to post pics Paul!  I'm envious!  I have the old, old 40mm - 104mm filter size and obviously not as sharp as the CF FLE version. 

[Francois]

Ed, Peter's jokes are "Bokeh" with me, too!!

I guess we're all a bit a bunch of photo otaku around here.

[Late Developer]

@ Ann.

Not sure it's any sharper - I've seen a few shots taken with the version you have and they look stunningly crisp. That's actually the lens I was after. However, I decided to trade my Nikon D300 and a lens (I've kept my D700) and I was offered enough to get a pretty "mint" example of the FLE version. The main attraction once I'd seen it was that, whilst it isn't small, it will fit in my Hassy bag  

@ Francois.

Well, I wouldn't call me obsessive - but I'm pretty sure my wife would