Topic: 5x4 recommendations please

[Ed Wenn]

If I said I was after a 'modern' 5x4 (i.e. from the last 30 years) and I had GBP250 to spend (birthday money) what would you advise I do? Any suggestions, or is that just not enough cash?

I'm not picky and am not a perfectionist so I won't care if it's the equivalent of a Zorki RF or a Great Wall 120 SLR. I just need something that focusses easily and has a reliable shutter. I have 3 boxes of Type 55 and various other 5x4 Polaroid sheet films that are getting more and more expired by the day and I really need to use them up before they start to gum up. I have a big family gathering in a month's time and it would be good to try for some group shots/portraits (more on that elsewhere).

So anyway, I know nothing about 5x4 equipment so recommend away, good people. I need a body, a lens and some way of using Polaroid sheet film.

[LT]

this might be worth a punt   - although probably much older than you want

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MPP-Mk-VIII-Field-Camera_W0QQitemZ190224852923QQihZ009QQcategoryZ627QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


or if you;re thinking new - these are about the cheapest before you start looking at build your own kits - but as you see, it's already way over your upper limit and that doesnt include a lens

http://robertwhite.co.uk/product.asp?P_ID=2149&PT_ID=437&P=ShenHao-TZ45-IIB-camera

[LT]

or you could have one of these for 150 ish

http://www.camerabellows.com/Bulldog.html  but you;d need to be a bit handy with your dexterity

[Francois]

I know the old Crown Graphics from Graflex are a pretty good deal if you're looking for a press camera..
Also, old Burke & James press can be had for cheap and are probably just as good (even though I would pay more attention to their bellows since I have a Burke view which needs new ones).
For a cheap deal, I know the Calumet photo company makes nice beginner's view cameras that sells for a good price. They carry parts in case you need some extra ones.

For a shutter, I really like the old Graphex lenses by Wollensack. Cheap and just as good as a Schneider.

You can check this site http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ for a lot of info.

[tijeras]

I know the old Crown Graphics from Graflex are a pretty good deal if you're looking for a press camera..
Also, old Burke & James press can be had for cheap and are probably just as good (even though I would pay more attention to their bellows since I have a Burke view which needs new ones).
For a cheap deal, I know the Calumet photo company makes nice beginner's view cameras that sells for a good price. They carry parts in case you need some extra ones.

For a shutter, I really like the old Graphex lenses by Wollensack. Cheap and just as good as a Schneider.

You can check this site http://www.largeformatphotography.info/ for a lot of info.

Agree with the above 100%. 
I have two CGs and would not consider having anything else. Seriously.
Even with the cheaper Wollensack lens, the photos will blow you away, and you'll shake your head at why you waited so long to get one.
They are clunky, but stylishly so!
Focusing is a breeze if the infinity stops are placed correctly, but get a loupe to keep with your kit for razor sharp focusing and macro stuff.
As you know I have a closet full of cameras, but it's the CG that thrills me the most in use.  It's almost empowering to own and use one as it gives you a sense of control that  makes other manual cameras pale.

I'll stop blabbering, as you probably get the idea I really love the CG.

astrobeck

[choppert]

or you could have one of these for 150 ish

http://www.camerabellows.com/Bulldog.html  but you;d need to be a bit handy with your dexterity

How hard can it be?


Chops

[rdbkorn]

Dare I suggest evilBay? 4X5 studio cameras like the Toyo/Omega seem to go for an average of $100 (?50?) without lens, leaving lots of dosh for getting a half decent lens. A couple of weeks ago a kit including lens went for $360. I got started with 4x5 with a Toyo 45G I picked up on the site and slowly built a kit up. Liked it enough to eventually get a field camera as well.

Paul

[Heather]

Dare I suggest evilBay? 4X5 studio cameras like the Toyo/Omega seem to go for an average of $100 (?50?) without lens, leaving lots of dosh for getting a half decent lens. A couple of weeks ago a kit including lens went for $360. I got started with 4x5 with a Toyo 45G I picked up on the site and slowly built a kit up. Liked it enough to eventually get a field camera as well.

Paul

Shipping to the UK will quite easily kill off that great deal. Large format cameras are heavy and postage isn't cheap.  I totally lucked out getting my 4x5 for ?50 because it ended in the morning on a bank holiday (less people awake then) also because it's so old and the person didn't call it a speed graphic in the title (because it doesn't say speed graphic on it, it's a folmer & schwing 4x5 press camera - the predecessor to the speed graphic). Large format on ebay in the UK seems too popular and the prices are high over here because of it (compared to the US where everything is always cheaper, insert whinge about rip-off britain here to the taste)

[Yaniv Waissa]

I'm working with Shen Hao, 4X5 field camera and I love it very much.

Here some links about the camera

http://www.shen-hao.com/E45.html
http://www.nadir.it/ob-fot_grande/shenhao-istruzioni/default.htm
http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=120

[Ed Wenn]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. It's much appreciated. My budget is obviously too low for anything other than a lucky evilBay purchase or a Graflex. There's a fully working, serviced Speed Graphic on at the moment at GBP295 which is tempting.

The thing is I have 3 Graflex cameras already and each one is slightly wrong:

• I have a mini Speed Graphic with the wrong style of back to be of any use to me and a RF that doesn't work. I've been meaning to sell it for about 4 years, but somehow never found the time or the inclination to list it.
• I have a really nice mini Graflex RB which takes 120 rollfilm or the smaller Polaroid film pack backs. This is a great camera and I had a lot of fun with it, but at the end of the day it's still just a medium format SLR and no matter how much fun it is to use its size counts against it given my current domestic situation and the fact that I own 3 medium format Bronica SLRs which are much smaller and still fun to use.
• ...and bringing up the rear is the 5x4 Graflex RB that I mentioned elsewhere on this forum. It's absolutely enormous and even though I enjoy looking at it because it makes me smile, the thing is in such bad condition that it ends up being not much fun to use.

.....so after all that, to end up buying a FOURTH Graflex seems kind of stupid. BUT I am happy to admit that maybe I should have spent a bit more the first time round and just ponied up the wedge required for a decent Speed or Crown Graphic instead of going for all these cheaper options. After all, it was Weegee who got me interested in film photography in the first place (well, him and Eggleston) so I've always had a hankering for a Speed Graphic.

Hmm...

Maybe I should go for it. GBP295 is just outside my budget, but reasonable for a nicely serviced and fully working SG and I should be able to arrange a local pick-up to save the GBP15 postage cost. If I don't fancy using standard sheet film once my Polaroid stock runs out I could always sell it on - although I've said similar things about the other 50 cameras in my collection and have only managed to get round to selling 2 or 3 on evilBay in the last 8 years.

[Francois]

I have a mini Speed Graphic with the wrong style of back to be of any use to me and a RF that doesn't work.

If it is anything like the Crown graphic, there is a hidden cam under the top of the camera. If the cam is not the right one for the lens, the rangefinder will be severely off.

As for the speed graphics... there are pros and cons about it.
On one hand, it allows you to use shutterless optics which go for next to nothing on the market. But on the other hand, since it uses a large focal plane shutter, you might be getting the same problems as with the RB...

But you can always lock the shutter open and use standard lenses with a built-in shutter like I have on my Crown Graphic...

If you do settle on buying the Speed Graphic, pay particular attention for pinholes in the bellows. I had a few in my Crown Graphic and ended up patching them with electric tape.

[choppert]

I'd love to have a play with movements etc.

Does anyone know whether Super Graphics can take roll-film backs too?

Chops

[Ed Wenn]

As for the speed graphics... there are pros and cons about it.
On one hand, it allows you to use shutterless optics which go for next to nothing on the market. But on the other hand, since it uses a large focal plane shutter, you might be getting the same problems as with the RB...

Now there is a big difference between the Crown and the Speed that I hadn't realised. I'm kind of getting fed up with the focal plane shutters, so would prefer to avoid in the future. Thanks for pointing this out.

Had a chat this afternoon on my commute home with Leon and as a result I have decided I'll revisit the MPP option as they appear to be the UK version of the Crown Graphic and probably will end up costing me less for pretty much the same camera.

[Karl]

Ed, I'd follow Heather's suggestion to slowly collect the parts of a system which is what I'm trying to do. If you can hold out for successes on ebay then you should get a basic kit for 250 pounds. I got a toyo monorail kit for 95 incl postage and I've seen a few other basic camera set ups like calumet go for not much more. Depends on your patience levels, or in my case bank account levels!

[rolo]

I'd love to have a play with movements etc.

Does anyone know whether Super Graphics can take roll-film backs too?

Chops

Yes, the Super will take all backs (rollfilm, Grafmatic, Polaroid, etc.) that will fit in a Graflok back -- that's what it has.  The big deal with the Super back is that rotates. That feature is very cool.