Topic: Filmwasters Advice Sought

[LT]

Hello Filmwasters.

I've been saving my pennies recently and am feeling the urge to buy a new camera.  Heres the thing:

... no matter how much I try, I just cant get on with 35mm.  I LURVE my bessa, and will never part with it, but I am useless with it.  It's too small, I get impatient waiting to finish the film.  I'm lucky if I get a success hit rate of one per film.  I really like the idea of a rangefindere, but MF is definitely my "thing"  therefore what I am after is an MF rangefinder so I get the 120 format in a proper camera to hand hold.  I'll always use my Broni SQ gear for the considered tripod type stuff, but a hand hels, grab the moment type of camera would be great too  - I think that was the Holga thing for me, not so much the toy camera aspect, more the MF "grab cam" approach it engendered.

This leaves me with a few options: - Bronica RF645 , Mamiya 6 , Mamiya 7II , Fuji MF Rangefinders (or others if anyone knows of any?)

Some kind of AE is necessary but with a Manual option if I want to take control.  I could go for an old folder, but having to mess with the fiddly controls and seperate light meters just does my head in, innit (see Ed - I'm quickly learning your inner-city speak).

I'd really like something with interchangeable lenses so strike out the fuji cams. As much as the Mam 7II is great and still being made AFAIK, it would eat too much film, so that's out of the window.  The Final Contestants are the Broni and the Mam 6.  I'd prefer to be shooting square, as it makes so much sense to me, but despite not being manufactured for ages, the Mam 6 still goes for very inflated prices.  I can attest to the excellence of Broni lenses etc, but it's only 645 - great for economy, poor if you can only shoot square like me!

Have any of you tried out either of these two cameras, or know of anyone who has?  Do you have any thoughts on the matter

[david b]

I use the Mamiya 6 for virtually all my personal work, and a good portion of commercial work.  It's the best camera I've ever used - quick, light, collapses to a very small size, excellent lenses. Being able to shoot 6x6 handheld down to 1/15th is pretty amazing.

A few provisos though - like all rangefinders it's not best for close-up work or for long lenses (the 150mm lens is very sharp, but tricky to frame and focus).  There is also apparently an issue with a lack of spare parts for the winder mechanism - I've not had a problem with it myself, but if it does go you might end up with an expensive paperweight.

[FrankB]

As much as the Mam 7II is great and still being made AFAIK, it would eat too much film, so that's out of the window.

Hmmm....

What's the name of this site again?  

(Would 10 frames a roll instead of 12 really make that much of a difference? Or have I got my numbers wrong?)

Wish I could help, mate. Unfortunately my only real experience of MF is a Mamiya C330S - top-notch interchangeable lenses, square format, very affordable... ...and completely unsuited to the rest of your specification!

I'll just have to restrict myself to facetious comments (as usual)!  

Edit - Afterthought: You could always get an Xpan and, if you get impatient, throw it into panoramic mode and run through a 24 roll in 12 shots...!

[Ailsa]

Leon, as you probably know, I use a Mamiya 6 for 99% of my photography. I can safely say it's changed my life. I bought it for exactly the same reasons that you list - the main one being the ability to handhold it with ease. You can use it with all the spontaneity of an SLR or rangefinder, but get the gorgeous 6x6cm neg instead (I don't think I've put a single roll of film through my Olympus OM2n since buying the Mamiya). And I never, ever thought I'd be someone who would find it possible to be excited about lenses, but get me on the subject of that Mamiya glass and you'd be forgiven for assuming I own a wardrobe full of anoraks.

Yes, they are pricy, there's no doubt about it (although I was extremely fortunate to pick up an absolute bargain), but I am convinced that it's an investment you won't regret. And if, for some unfathomable reason, you don't get on with it, it seems to be the one medium format camera that holds its price, so you'd probably be able to sell it a few months down the line for the same price as it was bought for.

Just do it! 

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[astrobeck]

The Mam 6 is your only choice.
I have been watching for one for over a year and a half now, and the prices are well inflated but it does appear that they come and go quite often.
And since the number of digital devotees seems to be growing and growing, I expect more to come our way. 

(I would also consider the 7 myself, since I do not mind shooting beyond the square.)

As I see it, keep saving those pennies Leon, and a Mam 6 will be in your future soon.

[Susan B.]

Mamiya 6!!!!

[Francois]

Have you considered big Exacta-like reflexes?

Here's an overview of 6x6 cameras... might be helpful
( http://web.archive.org/web/20050119092441/medfmt.8k.com/mf/g6x6.html )

Check the Medium Format site (their new version is full of popups so I send you the archived version of early 2005... does the job fine)

( http://web.archive.org/web/20050117090649/http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/index.html )

Hope you will find enough information to find the right camera for you...

(though that Mamiya 6 is d*** nice )

[eddie]

What you need is a Plaubel Makina. This is one of the cameras Chris Killip uses.  Not sure if it has interchangable lenses though. Its worth checking out.   

[david b]

The Plaubel is fixed-lens ... although there's a wide-angle version available also. It's 6x7 format.

Is Chris Killip still around?  The only work I've seen by him was from the 80s ... great stuff, but I haven't heard anything about him in the last few years.

[cpierce]

I have gone through the same dilemma you are going through.  I love square but the choices are limited and getting fewer in the range finder arena.  My compromise has been to carry a  Fuji GA645i  (Auto focus) or my GS645 ( lighter and quieter) for daily spontaneous shots, even ball games and events.  For serious tripod work I use my 5x4 or Mamyia RZ.  The film size is not so much the issue as is capturing the moment sometimes.  The Fuji cameras I mention are much more compact than the May 6,7 and they do come in 2 fixed lens options.  60mm and 45mm there are folders that have a 75mm.  I have looked at the 6's and really would like one but service parts are a concern for what you have to pay for the outfits.   Mamiya 7 maybe a good option but still pricey and I hate to have to think about what lens to strap on for a walk on the beach.  For the money Fuji has great quality and they hold there value well so if you want to trade on a  the next greatest 6x6 you won't loose anything.

[eddie]

Is Chris Killip still around?  The only work I've seen by him was from the 80s ... great stuff, but I haven't heard anything about him in the last few years.

As far as i am aware he is based in Boston, professor of photography in Harvard. He exhibited at Arles in 2004 at the request of Martin Parr. It was billed as a rediscovery exhibition.  A whole generation of photographers have never seen his work which is sad because his work was amazing.  Nothing has been published by him for some time except the Pirelli Book 2006, published by Pirelli.  IL flagrante was his best work, its very rare and well worth searching your library for a copy.
Sorry for going off topic,  cant help it , major fan.

[david b]

Is Chris Killip still around?  The only work I've seen by him was from the 80s ... great stuff, but I haven't heard anything about him in the last few years.

As far as i am aware he is based in Boston, professor of photography in Harvard. He exhibited at Arles in 2004 at the request of Martin Parr. It was billed as a rediscovery exhibition.  A whole generation of photographers have never seen his work which is sad because his work was amazing.  Nothing has been published by him for some time except the Pirelli Book 2006, published by Pirelli.  IL flagrante was his best work, its very rare and well worth searching your library for a copy.
Sorry for going off topic,  cant help it , major fan.

Thanks for that Eddie.  I'll have to do a library check for In Flagrante - there have been copies on ebay recently that went for vast sums. Shame there's so little of his work available on the web.

[LT]

thanks for all the advice people - I dont think I'd be able to afford a plaubel makina, but I have worshiped them from afar since reading George E Todd's book.  Have you ever seen one in the flash?  they are HUGE, much bigger than you imagine they would be. AO -I already have a MF slr and those hand-held 120 reflex cameras are just way too bulky, and dont have the auto features I want.

It has to be the Mamiya 6 I reckon.  Especially after seeing Ailsa's exellent picture.  I've got a few more pennies to save yet, but I'll let you know how I get on.

[LT]

my Mamiya 6 arrived today - thanks for all the tips and advice.  I'm running a couple of rolls through as I type and will dev them later ... but so far, so very good.

[FrankB]

I thought I detected a release of southerly GAS! (Although, to be fair, that might've been something else...!) 

Congratulations mate! I look forward to seeing it soon!

[LT]

I thought I detected a release of southerly GAS!

there is way more than a faint whiff wafting around Kent .... I L-U-R-V-E this camera. it is just brilliant.  and it all works, which is a bonus

[FrankB]

Just try not to lick all the finish off it before the Gathering! 

[This-is-damion]

"and it all works, which is a bonus"...


Great news leon...although no one likes a show off..........

update...my new camera is currently winging its way back across the globe to be fixed........

[LT]

sorry to hear that D - and a complete nightmare to deal with when the shop is such a long distance away ........ and in a different language .......

[This-is-damion]

i do wish id paid more attention to Ukrainian classes in school....at least i think it was ukranian........think ive just worked out why i failed.

[Aline]

There is nothing like a twin lens Rolleifelx--28F...simple, beautiful, quiet, a friend...
kind of like "Photographing Girls"!