Author Topic: The Impossible Project: Announcement on Monday 22nd March  (Read 14278 times)

kuru

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Re: The Impossible Project: Announcement on Monday 22nd March
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2010, 01:01:22 PM »

The difference between the TIP shots and BJP's are night and day. Though the TIP photographers probably had a shoe box full to get it right.


Two of my friends got to test two of the emulsions, they both got one box of each emulsion to shoot and return. Both have told me that you definitely need to develop a technique to use the film to good effect.

Nancy's shots:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/futurowoman/sets/72157623671224772/

Brian's shots:

http://www.time-zero.net/blog/?p=68
Kevin Pointer
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Ed Wenn

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Re: The Impossible Project: Announcement on Monday 22nd March
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2010, 01:21:36 PM »
.....VERY similar to the shots on that group that are taken with expired polaroid film - VERY similar. I can be overly cynical at times.

Do I smell a conspiracy theory brweing? Down, boy!!

 :) ;)

tinm@n

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Re: The Impossible Project: Announcement on Monday 22nd March
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2010, 01:43:15 PM »
Looked on Flickr too and I've got to say the results look great to me.  I might have to get some after all and feel good for supporting the venture.  Looks like the BJP reviewer cocked up

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/px100/

Francois

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Re: The Impossible Project: Announcement on Monday 22nd March
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2010, 02:56:15 PM »
looks like they couldn't fix it - all the shots I've seen have a heavy sepia tone.
I think that's probably why they have blue goop inside. Besides looking cool, adding a blue dye to the entire process will reduce the intensity of the sepia. The original process probably turned out to be very yellowish...
Francois

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mart

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Re: The Impossible Project: Announcement on Monday 22nd March
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2010, 02:59:12 PM »
I'm old enough to remember when I went to see movies that were sepiatone.

William

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Re: The Impossible Project: Announcement on Monday 22nd March
« Reply #55 on: August 22, 2010, 05:29:07 AM »
.

As it stands, it really does look like a "toy" film with no real versatility and much unpredictability. 

yes Ive added the link to impossible project to my rolodex as party favors.

http://support.the-impossible-project.com/entries/167813-will-you-be-producing-new-peel-apart-film

Ed Wenn

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Re: The Impossible Project: Announcement on Monday 22nd March
« Reply #56 on: August 22, 2010, 08:44:13 AM »
Hi William...are you the William Littman who wrote the long reply on the page that you linked to? It's a fascinating piece.

gothamtomato

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Re: The Impossible Project: Announcement on Monday 22nd March
« Reply #57 on: August 22, 2010, 03:32:41 PM »
Hi William...are you the William Littman who wrote the long reply on the page that you linked to? It's a fascinating piece.




Yes, that is a fascinating piece. I'd like to hear more - including more about the process to replicate type 55 results with other films.

And BTW, I have been wanting a Littman camera since I first read about them years ago. At that time, I think they cost about $1500, now they are much, much more (I think about 8K, if I'm not mistaken). Had I known the price was going to jump so high, I would have bought one early! Ah, hindsight. But if I ever hit the lottery, Mr. Littman is one of the first people I'd contact!

William

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Re: The Impossible Project: Announcement on Monday 22nd March
« Reply #58 on: August 23, 2010, 04:53:16 AM »
Being able to post short replies and follow thread is a luxury I have not had in 10 years namely because I had to waste so much time clarifying stupid and boring stuff which didnt intrest me in the first place
whenever I have managed to provide answers i have had to cramm it in and then leave because I am burdened by work as it is. I appologize for the long post.

  

My interest in providing this info is non commercial and i am against using the forums to push products.
So I will make no reference to that
here is another aspect of this media cirque

http://www.circlerectangle.com/blog/archives/1503/comment-page-1#comment-1355

By the time Type 55 was discontinued it had gone from its original price of 16.00 to almost 79.00 a box.

The rummors of discontinuationby people who live to spread rummors in forums concurrent with an expectancy of a lifetime commitement from Polaroid before these guys would buy 1 box is what started the decline.
Price increase was the second step it became an eventual choice for many
the two Lesser evils that Polaroid tried to avoid while Ed was in charge is
that the company or film would be blamed for poor performing cameras-

Fact is when we made a product that could deliver Polaroid images so defined it could be used as final art
in the most demanding situations people were so convinced the peel apart films were a blur that the market
was unwilling to believe that the problem was not the film but something called parallelism.

Remember misinformation is free- advertising is not.
And concurrently with the fenomenon of discontinuation
WE all have to face the fact that a year ago the publishing industry collapsed and many if not most great photographer took a big hit in their income and accredited journalists were forced to retire.
There is a state of anarchy when it comes to niche products such as this film or the ... camera

 
I can and have removed myself from the reach of the snobs who say nothing is any good  until they say so
but someone who hopes to make a film cannot afford that luxury.
The last time arround it became a luxury item for that very reason because the so called freedom of expression of those who ask for credentials was deemed more important that the freedom of expression of those who knew and ueed the films.



That is why being that Polaroid was a softer film and they ceased to make Pro camera after the 180/ 195 they opened an OEM division and when people asked which camera should I use with that film they sent them to products which met their standards.

The forums did away with that too- they said it was too arbitrary;)
Then finaly there is the inevitable in that life moves on and times change.

For a film to be viable it has to be cheap.there seems to be an apathy about them
which I feel comes out of partisanship which  I find unreasonable
Back in the day when we shot 810 Pola we could go thru  a case a day.
At fuji prices for pack films  you could still do it  had a client.

Even though Fuji now has the monopoly on peel apart films their pices rival Polaroid prices of 10 years ago
but they are not receiving the support they deserve if you only consider their fild an image of much higher quality to what is now claimed as being saved.

Many claim it is an image more defined and more resolved than any Polaroid film ever was  .
I can tell you from personal experience that making a better product doesnt carry the gratitude you would assume- on the contrary andto a film company a new film is a risk .


The only way a type 55 Polaroid film would come back is if those who are deserving got toghether and sent the usual naggers to the soapboxes for their discouragement.

Then and only then would a film company find the risk viable and the Trademarks may have protection on the tech even if patents are expired there may be contiuationsand Polaroid made their transition and if we expect them to grant licence to someeone else to make the film the saving rhetoric while mentioning the trademark  has to end because  the risk to the trademark standing is- has been the biggest hurdle
A few years back when I tried to obtain the licence to make it these concerns seemed unreasonable to me
but As someone here has made ref.  to a brand and a price and said then- and now.

I tell you that what i did then and what I do now  are two different things and the interferances I faced  from instigated confusion and still face to get the point accross  I have dealt with because Im a small buisness and had no choice but pun intended it has made it all close to" impossible."

To Summarize
In order to Assure that a Type 55 is not" Impossible" those of us who love it have to send a message that we would be content with the tech only and are willing to allow the Traemark to move on.
Otherwise  we are the ones who have to be prepared to finally do so.







gothamtomato

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Re: The Impossible Project: Announcement on Monday 22nd March
« Reply #59 on: August 23, 2010, 10:20:50 PM »
To Summarize
In order to Assure that a Type 55 is not" Impossible" those of us who love it have to send a message that we would be content with the tech only and are willing to allow the Traemark to move on.
Otherwise  we are the ones who have to be prepared to finally do so.




Are you saying that for a company to deem it a financially viable endeavor, to bring back Type 55, the Impossible Project would have to either step aside (or change their strategies)??

Since they can't seem to get color or permanency right, and claim they have no intention of doing peel apart films anyway, I'd think that would be doable. Or am I getting it wrong?

Ed Wenn

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Re: The Impossible Project: Announcement on Monday 22nd March
« Reply #60 on: August 24, 2010, 01:04:00 AM »
Walter, thanks for taking the time to reply. It's much appreciated.

I particularly liked your comments about Fujifilm and their instant offerings. I've long been a huge fan of their peel apart 100 series film and only recently started using the larger format 5x4 compatible equivalent which is fantastic too. I've always loved the results and the reliability. For whatever reason however the Fujifilm instant lines have never been seen as 'hip' in some circles.....something I've never understood.

I think it's ironic (to say the least) that a lot of the people who are successfully gleaning negs from Fuji's instant films are choosing to tag them 'Polanegs' on Flickr. Someone recently got in touch with me because I was the only person on the whole of Flickr who was tagging his reclaimed Fujifilm negs, 'Fujinegs' (I'm sure that situation has since changed). That summed it up for me.

Mil Mascaras

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Re: The Impossible Project: Announcement on Monday 22nd March
« Reply #61 on: August 24, 2010, 07:16:14 AM »
For whatever reason however the Fujifilm instant lines have never been seen as 'hip' in some circles.....something I've never understood.

The hip formats really are the non-peel aparts so probably because the Instax cameras are freakin big and not slick like a SX-70. If anything the SX-70 is a testament to great design.

Otherwise, yeah, I don't know. Especially with the beautiful saturated colours they produce in all lines. IMO FP100C is better than anything Polaroid ever did as far as quality goes.

However, I must say that almost all of my female friends from Japan have got a Mini Instax/Cheki camera. It's also fairly popular in Taiwan. They always take it around for a girl's night out or a girlfriends weekend and if anything that's the only instant film you can guarantee will be around in 10 years.

William

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Re: The Impossible Project: Announcement on Monday 22nd March
« Reply #62 on: August 25, 2010, 01:54:37 AM »
To Summarize
In order to Assure that a Type 55 is not" Impossible" those of us who love it have to send a message that we would be content with the tech only and are willing to allow the Traemark to move on.
Otherwise  we are the ones who have to be prepared to finally do so.




Are you saying that for a company to deem it a financially viable endeavor, to bring back Type 55, the Impossible Project would have to either step aside (or change their strategies)??

Since they can't seem to get color or permanency right, and claim they have no intention of doing peel apart films anyway, I'd think that would be doable. Or am I getting it wrong?




We do not know the extent of protection from existing trademarks or patent continuations to find out you have to spend a lot of money.

If the specific film is desired the viability has to be for the Trademark owner before it is viable for the investor.

I seriously doubt that since there is an admission that the machinery was the impediment and Fuji is the only one who has it and running that someone coukl afford  to create the machines and product for a single film and hope to be able to sell it at a fair price.

It is for this reason that now that everyone knows where we stand and who can do what we should support Fuji and the photographic community should create a safe harbor environment for this film that would somewhat encourage Fuji to make it.


I dont think Fuji believe the Type 55 market is willing to put their money where their mouth is.
If you can change that the film would be in the shelves in no time.

When I considered making it we were more interested in making just an instant negative since the T 55 print was nothing to write home about.

In a few years i ammassed enough print and negs that i was paying 100 a month in storage.
the highest cost and tech challenge e silver from the neg to the print.

I figured in this day and age if the great neg was available and a device for viewing costing a few hundred that you could insert the neg and it would invert it onto a 4x5 flat panel screen that may work.

In the meantime here are a few tips on available films and dev tehniques that can currently approximate Type 55.

Look - its a zoo out there nobody will change strategies and so there has to be some benefit to the Trademark owners to allow someone to use the tech.

If the consumer demands the positive negative tech remains  attached to the trademark it will never happen.

Fact is if it went well for 10 years and then bust the trademark would again be blamed for a discontinuation

There are too many obstacles for someone to start from scratch but few obstacles for Fuji.

If they are licenced to make their current films there is no reason they could not get 55 but I also dont see any incentive for them to even bother.

Help unconfuse the market which has become a mindfield of misinformation and things will change.

I think those pop out films are great for girls night out- now we are left with the task of getting
a film which boys and Girls who take photography seriously can use for their most prized immagery

In the meantime here are a few tips on available films and dev tehniques that can currently approximate Type 55.


If you liked shooting Polaroid Type 55 try
 
 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/450071-REG/Efke_1915025_PL_50_M_Black.html
if you underdevelop slightly you will get similar contrast grain and resolution
 
or try
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/244641-USA/Kodak_1371517_TMX_4052_4x5_50.html
 
rate at 50 asa and pull one stop
 
if not enough rate at 25 and pull 2 stops but with heightened developer concentration
 
or try
 
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/636062-REG/Fujifilm_15952595_4x5_Acros_Neopan_Black.html
rate at 50 asa and pull one stop .
 
 
you can play with d 76 but a panatomic x type developer is best to get the Polaroid 55 look
if D 76 is used and you feel that you arent getting as much detail as with 55 then dilute the developer
if you get too mich detail use higher concentration.
if you want too much detail then try microdol.