Topic: The Impossible Project: Announcement on Monday 22nd March

[Ed Wenn]

The delayed announcement from The Impossible Project is due on Monday so stay tuned for whatever may come of it. If you're a Twitter person then you can follow events by using the #TIPpress hashtag. Similarly, if you want to comment or speculate about what's in store then also use the #TIPpress tag.

If you're not a Twitter person (i.e. don't have an account), but want to follow the news blow-by-blow then bookmark this link and check it whenever you feel like it over the next few days: http://search.twitter.com/search?q=TIPpress

Personally, I'm little more than simply curious at this stage because TIP isn't going to be making the type of Polaroid film that I use (although I guess that other lines may follow if the first sells well enough), but I think it's an interesting project & I wish them all the best.

[This-is-damion]

Good work Ed.    Funnily enough I was just sat here and remembered tomorrow was the big day and as such I trawled You Tube for the CES 2010 -Pola press conference.

Link here.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBLCgCOuc1A

Looks like a nice range of new Pola cams,  although I also wish they re-introduced the peel apart & 4 x 5 film.

And Ed -the easiest way to make this more relevant to you in to get a cam that takes 600 film!

[Ed Wenn]

Integral schmintegral.

 

p.s.
A Google search for "Polaroid Integral Film" brings up Sean's blog as the #1 result. That's how we roll!

[original_ann]

I have had the day marked on my calendar ever since the original announcement.   I'll buy whatever they sell - they need our support so that they can expand! 

[edthened]

Och am chust so exited aboot it    

[This-is-damion]

I'm clean shaven and wearing a new suit,   to give the occasion the gravitas it so rightly deserves.

I think i am behind the times a bit here, as whilst I knew there woudnt be a chance they would annouce they couldnt make films,  I am now intrigued after reading this article.

http://blog.blurb.com/index.php/2010/03/04/update-on-the-impossible-project-and-the-newold-polaroid/

This bit in particular

Blurb: We know you can?t tell all, but can you fill us in on the new ?integral film materials? that your website promises?

Marlene: Okay, in a nutshell, the new materials will definitely work with SX-70 and 600 camera models. Other than that, you?ll have to tune in with us on March 22nd ? which, by the way, is about 63 years after Edwin Land, the inventor of instant photography, revealed the first instant photo ever at the Annual Meeting of the Optical Society of America.

So without wanting to hyesterically speculate,  maybe peel apart on the cards......its either that or they have found elvis.

[original_ann]

I should have received an email about it by now... what's going on, has anyone heard anything yet?  (I'm like a racehorse in the starting gate!!)

[original_ann]

oh, and I got all dressed up for the occasion!   

[Ed Wenn]

Interesting. 52 minutes until kick off and I finally realise there might be more to this than film that I don't currently need. It's a great achievement etc., I'm so glad there are people like TIP around and I wish them years and years of profitable trading with quality products , but you know me...why wouldn't I be suspicious of something that's so hyped, so secret, so hip?

Of course if they start knocking out 665 and 55 then all is forgiven!

 

[Urban Hafner]

I can already see myself spending money.  I wanted to get into Polaroid stuff for ages. Let's see what they announce and then I'll start investigating ...

Urban

[Ed Wenn]

Right, so the annoucement's done and guess what...yep, it's pretty much exactly what the Impossible crew said they'd do when they kicked things off a couple (3?) years ago: an equivalent 600 series film. It's b/w and comes in two flavours: a 100 and a 600ASA. Absolutely fantastic news for users of compatible cameras. Well done.

Details here on the BJP site.

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=873885

and there's a nice little vieo on the Impossible Project's homepage

http://www.the-impossible-project.com/

[Urban Hafner]

So what kind of cameras would be compatible with that film? It's all a bit confusing.

Urban

[Francois]

So what kind of cameras would be compatible with that film? It's all a bit confusing.

Urban

100 iso if for the SX-70 series camera while the 600 iso is for the 600 series... simple.

But I think they're probably all 600 film with the only difference that the 100 iso film has a built-in ND filter so there is no need to tweak the lightmeter.
Also, the film casing is slightly different on both models you you can't mistakenly pop some 600 film into the SX-70 and vice versa.

[Ed Wenn]

Francois, I think the new PX series films will fit both types of cameras. This from the press conference (via @jesshibb on Twitter)

"Cassettes designed to fit any camera. No need to remove plastic nubs like current 600 film when used with sx-70 cameras."

Also, Urban, you are aware that you could have started in with using instant film before this annoucment from TIP, right? Fuji still make several instant films some of which fit old Polaroid Land Cameras like the one I and many other Filmwasters use. The other films they make are compatible with their own Instax range of cameras.

While the Impossible Project's endeavours are spectacularly impressive it's not true to say that they have saved instant photography (or even analogue photography as I read today from one hysterical Twitterer who has obviously been swept along on a wave of excitement re this announcement  ). Instant photography has been alive and kicking  (albeit with less force) since the demise of Polaroid.

Now, before we go further you have to understand that the world of instant photography is pretty confusing; there are many formats, cameras, film backs, film types and whatnot. It's a bit of a world unto itself. Take some time to read up about it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_film before going further, but then feel free to ask any questions you want. There are lots of instant film fanatics here on Filmwasters and we're always happy to help.

To answer your specific question though, TIP's new film will satisfy instant film demand for owners of cameras like the SX-70 and the 'One' series (see http://www.rwhirled.com/landlist/landdcam-600.htm for a full list). They will be very excited by today's announcement.

[Urban Hafner]

Also, Urban, you are aware that you could have started in with using instant film before this annoucment from TIP, right? Fuji still make several instant films some of which fit old Polaroid Land Cameras like the one I and many other Filmwasters use. The other films they make are compatible with their own Instax range of cameras.

While the Impossible Project's endeavours are spectacularly impressive it's not true to say that they have saved instant photography (or even analogue photography as I read today from one hysterical Twitterer who has obviously been swept along on a wave of excitement re this announcement  ). Instant photography has been alive and kicking  (albeit with less force) since the demise of Polaroid.

Now, before we go further you have to understand that the world of instant photography is pretty confusing; there are many formats, cameras, film backs, film types and whatnot. It's a bit of a world unto itself. Take some time to read up about it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant_film before going further, but then feel free to ask any questions you want. There are lots of instant film fanatics here on Filmwasters and we're always happy to help.

Thanks Ed. I know that Fujifilm also produces instant film that is compatible with some of the polaroid cameras. And I'm not sure I want to use the TIP film anyway. I think you can't do transfers (if that's what it's called) with them. Anyway, I'll spend some time researching and I'll eventually ask here, before investing any money. As you said, it's all a bit confusing ...

Urban

[Francois]

Francois, I think the new PX series films will fit both types of cameras. This from the press conference (via @jesshibb on Twitter)

"Cassettes designed to fit any camera. No need to remove plastic nubs like current 600 film when used with sx-70 cameras."

When you use the proper film in the right camera, you don't need to remove the plastic nubs...
Though they probably went for a "universal" cassette (lower cost) and the user is responsible of the choice between 100 and 600 iso.

Still, I looked at the video and find the development speed and blue goop to be quite nice. All I really want to see is if it has a silky smooth gradation like peel apart.

[DS]

Several things i like about this:

• the ilford label on the bottom of the box in the above picture (it means that ilford obviously have enough cash to invest in things like this and thus  can keep making film for a while)
• it's another, new different type of film (that I may never use but it's there if I want it)
• their next goal is 8x10". Oh yes. Wouldn't that be fun?

[Ailsa]

I have to say, I'm far more excited about this that I thought I would be. Although I own a 600, I only use it rarely (should've bought an SX-70 in the days when I actually had a bit of disposable income). However, I love the fact that a group of people have been ambitious and passionate enough to believe they could relaunch Polaroid products - and have actually done it. The B&W emulsion looks pretty gorgeous, and think I'll be investing in some. It could even be my route back into taking pictures, as I've barely touched a camera for months now.

So if someone has an SX-70 knocking around that they no longer need...

[Janet_P]

I've just been looking at their webshop and love the fact that they're also selling some of the film that actually doesn't work properly. The FadetoBlack looks like fun to try, I might give it a go. I have an SX70 that I haven't used for over a year and this will definitely make me use it again. Like Ailsa, I haven't taken a photo (for myself) since the last Filmwasters collab so this will be a good incentive.

Would love to see anybody's results with these films

[gothamtomato]

My SX-70 camera will be wanting to come out & play with this.

But it also just kills me that Ilford is involved, which says we were closer than we even thought, to them picking up production of Type 55. If only that PUTZ (who's now in jail) hadn't been such a little prick and destroyed all the manufacturing equipment rather than allow Ilford to buy it. (Not to mention the 5000 people who lost their jobs because of his folly).

It STILL just makes me angry.

[Francois]

My SX-70 camera will be wanting to come out & play with this.

But it also just kills me that Ilford is involved, which says we were closer than we even thought, to them picking up production of Type 55. If only that PUTZ (who's now in jail) hadn't been such a little prick and destroyed all the manufacturing equipment rather than allow Ilford to buy it. (Not to mention the 5000 people who lost their jobs because of his folly).

It STILL just makes me angry.

Looking back on this can only bring grief and aggravation. I for one am looking forward to seeing more from TIP. As long as it makes me smile, I'll keep on cheering.

[gothamtomato]

Looking back on this can only bring grief and aggravation. I for one am looking forward to seeing more from TIP. As long as it makes me smile, I'll keep on cheering.

I know you're right. It's just that injustice of rich people toying with the lives of the rest of us that always annoys me. Probably not good for my blood pressure to think about though!

I'm cheering TIP as well & CAN'T WAIT to get my little hands on some.

On a side note: I just treated myself to a nice used NPC Polaroid back for my Hasselblad this morning. Prices have gotten so cheap (only $30, in excellent condition) that it was too good to pass up. It will take the Fuji film. I'm looking forward to taking it out for a spin.

[LT]

I bet the ebay price for sx-70 is going through the roof as I type!

I have to say it is all very impressive. 

If my screen is anything to go by, the emulsion has a very soft look to it ... almost like a Platinum print, which might limit it's application ... or conversely improve it as a mid-way stage between snapping and printing digitally - a nice detailed soft image to scan and mess around with in photoshop?  maybe that was the intention.

[original_ann]

I shot over 150 polaroids with my sx-70 last year (thanks to a healthy stock of film) and am OVER THE MOON to know I don't have to hold my breath anymore! (Can I be first in line on Thursday to pick up that gorgeous monochrome stuff, please?)

[gothamtomato]

I shot over 150 polaroids with my sx-70 last year (thanks to a healthy stock of film) and am OVER THE MOON to know I don't have to hold my breath anymore! (Can I be first in line on Thursday to pick up that gorgeous monochrome stuff, please?)

Is there going to be a place where we can pick it up in person?? I can't find any locations listings on their site.

BTW, I just read JessHibb's Tweets & see that it is manipulatable! That's great news. Originally they'd said they weren't going to be going for a manipulatable film.

[gothamtomato]

I bet the ebay price for sx-70 is going through the roof as I type!

I have to say it is all very impressive. 

If my screen is anything to go by, the emulsion has a very soft look to it ... almost like a Platinum print, which might limit it's application ... or conversely improve it as a mid-way stage between snapping and printing digitally - a nice detailed soft image to scan and mess around with in photoshop?  maybe that was the intention.

I was thinking that the emulsion gives it a toy look.  I can't wait to get my hands on it.

BTW, I don't know about eBay prices (because I don't pay attention to them), but because of your post I just went to look & saw this little gem on sale: It's SX-70 Accesory Kit:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Polaroid-SX-70-Land-Camera-Accessory-Kit-Exc-Condition_W0QQitemZ120546810797QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFilm_Cameras?hash=item1c11265bad#ht_2587wt_1167

I have one of these kits & it's a GREAT thing to have.

[original_ann]

gothamtomato - they're online only.  They work out of a building in in NYC (on B'way), but it's not a shop. 

I've been buying polaroid film from them for almost a year and a half, though mostly med format/100 series peel apart and some large format (side note: my sis lives close to their B'way location and has befriended a key staff person, and has gotten a lot of generous boxes of peel-apart, GRATIS).     

[psmith2383]

I hope I don't get bricks aimed at me but I wasn't totally impressed by the film presentation by the project managers.  One of the other posters noted a soft look to the SX-70 shots.  Maybe this is just one type of emulsion that will be offered but I wasn't really impressed with the actual photographs, very soft in all the images. I like that sometimes in my work but not as a regular look for my work.  You really couldn't tell much from the enlargements because of the overriding glare from lights or light from windows. 

Of course, I admire these people for the imagination and guts to re-energize the instant film genre.  This enterprise I hope will flourish.  I'd like to order film for my cameras but will wait to see if they will put out a product that will produce images that satisfy my vision of black and white.    I'd buy a box for my SX-70 to experiment with.  I'm am excited by this announcement but wasn't as impressed as some with the product as represented in the video.  Maybe seeing the film in real life, will shut me up.  I hope so.   

[Heather]

For Londoners:

I do believe the last time I visited the Photographers' Gallery several months ago, they had a sign up saying they'd be selling Impossible Project's new film when it comes out. Otherwise, I think that Impossible Project and Urban Outfitters were suppose to team up to expand sales that way.

I'm slightly confused by the whole 600 vs sx-10 packs but I guess it's just a cassette change because if you go to the NEW site and click on PX film and look around in there, it shows that if you shoot the film in an sx-70 it comes out mostly dark and if you shoot it in a 600 camera, it comes out more light and what they call overexposed but I didn't think it looked that bad.

Having artsy fartsy types try out the film probably isn't that great of a promotion... they might well always shoot the soft look. SX-70s do have a lovely short depth when doing closeups, though. (Alisa, go ahead and scream, I got mine for ?10 in a local charity shop a few years ago  )

[Heather]

My SX-70 camera will be wanting to come out & play with this.

But it also just kills me that Ilford is involved, which says we were closer than we even thought, to them picking up production of Type 55. If only that PUTZ (who's now in jail) hadn't been such a little prick and destroyed all the manufacturing equipment rather than allow Ilford to buy it. (Not to mention the 5000 people who lost their jobs because of his folly).

It STILL just makes me angry.

If it makes you feel any better, Ilford would not have had the funds to move the machinery. In fact it's somewhat impossible (forgive!) to move the film coating machinery from the buildings they live in, usually because they're so large they can't be transported easily and they're precision instruments and in some cases the buildings were built around the machinery and there's no way you can get it out without a wrecking ball anyway.

But... yeah, I'm not very pleased about the criminal who wrongly blamed a unique product on sucking the company's money dry when it was actually him.

[LT]

for what it is worth, psmith, I am totally in agreement.  If this is how the film always behaves, then it is going to be another shallow "instant art" product.  That said, the manipulability and possibilities of post-scan realisation hold some promise.

this is the 1.0 product ... hopefully there'll be 1.1, 1.2 2.0 etc versions as they hone the process.

can anyone see what the ILFORD sticker says on the packet - I'm keen to know their actual involvement - is it just financial or did they participate on the R&D too?

[Ed Wenn]

Count me in on the "hmmm, those prints all look the same" club because that's exactly what I thought when I watched the video. On one hand I appreciate that you're hardly seeing them in their best light when viewing a 640x480 style web video, but on the other hand the Impossible crew must have realised how important this first video would be (first impressions etc.) so I can only assume that the video gives a reasonably representative view of the results you can expect. The similarity of tone/contrast/feel across the images was weird though given that so many different test photographers were involved.

Still, I do like that it's manipulatable and I'm excited to see what results the various Filmwasters who own compatible cameras produce with this first interation of the film.

One thing though; cost. Thoughts from people here, please. EUR18 for 8 exposures.

I'm jealous that Ann's sister is getting free peel apart from (I'm guessing) either Annie or Dave) in the NYC office. Free peel apart film is my idea of A VERY GOOD THING.

BTW, for those of us interested in seeing a revival in the pos/neg Polaroid film (Type 55 and 665), I got a message from Jessica Hibbard (@jesshibb on Twitter and http://jesshibb.com) to the effect that a gent called, Bob Crowley, is working on exactly that. It's exciting news, so I'll start a separate thread rather than bury it here.

[kuru]

can anyone see what the ILFORD sticker says on the packet - I'm keen to know their actual involvement - is it just financial or did they participate on the R&D too?

Leon,

This article has more info the Harmon involvement:

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=873885

In early 2009, Howard Hopwood, Harman's marketing director first discussed with BJP how Ilford Photo was involved in the development of a new instant film. It was the first time Harman Technology?s involvement was disclosed.

?We've been talking with Florian Kaps since November 2008,? Hopwood said at the time. ?Kaps has the equipment to produce integral SX-70 films, but he did not have the photosensitive material to go in the packs. And because we had shown some interest after Polaroid announced it would stop producing instant films last year, Kaps came to us.?

At first, only three people at Harman Technology worked on a new black-and-white instant film. But, as the project took on importance, new members were added to the team, until came the revelation, in August 2009, that Harman Technology had succeeded in creating a new kind of instant film. ?We've now seen the first working images,' said Kaps in an interview with BJP that month. These images were good, added Howard Hopwood, chairman at Harman, but were Sepia in colour, instead of the black-and-white look expected. ?But we know why that is and we can fix that,? he told BJP.

[Ailsa]

BJP has posted a brief review. I have to say, 'Hmmm...' 

http://www.1854.eu/2010/03/handson_with_impossible_px100.html

[tinm@n]

good news i suppose but , for me, SX-70 is all about colour. Not sure I'll even try this one for a while,  I'm more drawn to experimenting with fade to Black at the moment.

[vicky slater]

Ailsa, I saw that too :)

[gothamtomato]

BJP has posted a brief review. I have to say, 'Hmmm...' 

http://www.1854.eu/2010/03/handson_with_impossible_px100.html

Wow. This is very disappointing.

The thing I've had trouble understanding is why they've had problems with the formulations. You'd think there would be enough disgruntled ex-Polaroid employees to get their hands on what they need.

[vicky slater]

gotham, I think I read somewhere that some of the chemicals are no longer available whilst others have since become illegal (new environmental laws) so they've had to come up with a new recipe and ingredients....

[Klaark]

I think I'm going to get a pack for my 600 compatible Polaroid and see how they turn out. At 16 quid a packet (so I hear) I'm not going to invest in a new SX-70 just yet if the results are as hit and miss as BJP's first impressions suggest.

[LT]

that is just awful.  What is going on?  A product that cant be used in much of the northern hemisphere for 6 months of the year?  and even then, crap uneven blotchy development?

looks like a bag o' shite to me.

it's lomo all over again.

[Phil Bebbington]

Well, other than the excitement of the film being made, I really didn't see anything there that would entice me to shell out 16 quid! I'm with Leon, it really does look like a bag o' shite so far!

[mart]

Right on, Leon.

[Ed Wenn]

Re the BJP review....Damn! How much goodwill does one product deserve? That review cut the film VAST amounts of slack.

I'm resolutely trying not to slag off TIP and their products - their marketing schtick winds me up so damn much that I'm trying not to let it cloud my judgement as I'm hopeful that the film will get better with time - also, there is a slim chance that the BJP triallist just didn't get it right (although I'd expect the BJP would put someone good onto the story).

Anyway, listen...I'm reserving judgment for now and for me that is quite an achievement especially when we have to put up with stuff like this at the product launch:

"Doc: People don't just own their Polaroid cameras, they love them."

I'm trying hard not to think "The Lomographic Society", but that kind of phrase does have a familiar ring to it.

The good news is that TIP got in touch yesterday and are sending us two press packs (one to London and one to Susan in LA). We'll run the film through our own tests and get back with comments.

Phil, there will be colour film available from TIP later in the year apparently. That'll be interesting.

[Phil Bebbington]

I will look forward to that, Ed. I have numerous Polaroids sitting around here waiting to have their hearts re-started! - of  course, that will also need action on my part! I know myself too well.

[This-is-damion]

Ed,  Wasnt Doc  the bloke who started the Lomography brand?    Although I understand it got really bad after he left. 

Although the uber marketing thing is over the top, I actually dont let it wind me up as a) Im biased as im a big fan of the product  b)   "Doc" and TIP in general actually come across as very genuine and people who care about the product.   c)  this must have cost them all a shit load of cash and its not like they are a massive corporation,  I'm sure its a few people who have sunk cash into what is essentially, a very risky venture!  All those things combine make me think If i were in the same boat Id be very similar, Id be making my grandmother tap dance to hawk that stuff.

That being said...the BJP thing.....must be scary for TIP.      Cant wait to give it a run out myself, Hopefully BJP boy either had very bad luck or got something very wrong.

[Miller]

Mission Impossible for the Impossible Project....?

The difference between the TIP shots and BJP's are night and day. Though the TIP photographers probably had a shoe box full to get it right.

Generation X who never saw a pro-shop fridge full of Time Zero & plain Polaroid products with numbers and not names like 'Chocolate' and 'Fade to Black' will love it and that's the point I guess.

No one likes rain at a parade but I see lightning and I think I hear thunder though I look forward to seeing some 'amateur' work on the first dedicated FlickR Group.

As for the talky talky on the paper darkslide...  

[LT]

These images were good, added Howard Hopwood, chairman at Harman, but were Sepia in colour, instead of the black-and-white look expected. ?But we know why that is and we can fix that,? he told BJP.

looks like they couldn't fix it - all the shots I've seen have a heavy sepia tone.

I'm really trying to feel upbeat about the product ... I'll wait until I see some other results before I completely write it off. Bet Harman are squirming based on that BJP review.

The temperature thing is really bothering me though. 17 - 25 deg really does limit where and when it can be used.

BTW - did I miss something or did we never actually see the shot 'doc' takes of his colleague in the video? I wonder if that turned out like the BJP shots too?

[Phil Bebbington]

Leon, I'm sure there may be a day or two this summer when the temperatures get up high enough to use that film. One pack may be all a Brit need buy a year!

[Heather]

I don't use my SX-70 outside much because it used to overexpose the normal polaroid too much anyway.

I'd still try it. Even at the price it's at. I was paying ?20/twinpack and since this is a bit of a rarity, paying more doesn't seem so bad.  I'm already having to pay nearly ?1/sheet for 4x5 film and it's not instant or goes into my SX-70. Photography is an expensive hobby.

[LT]

i've just had a look at the Flickr group ... some better results than the BJP test, but there are still lots of issues with blotches, poor development, extremely flat contrast etc.

As it stands, it really does look like a "toy" film with no real versatility and much unpredictability.  And VERY similar to the shots on that group that are taken with expired polaroid film - VERY similar. I can be overly cynical at times.