Author Topic: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...  (Read 5056 times)

Indofunk

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Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« on: May 15, 2015, 12:15:45 AM »
Ilford Rapidfix, to be precise. Diluted 1+4. Here, let me tell you the story.

So I mixed up this present batch on 4/15 (I write down the date, but not the number of rolls I process. I've found that during a normal shooting schedule for me, fixer lasts about 1 month, at which point I check it with HypoCheck after every use and discard it when I see a precipitate). Today being almost exactly a month after that date, I decided I'd HypoCheck it after today's use. But as I poured it into the tank, there was a lot of weird, white, relatively large (though >1mm diameter) flakey precipitate at the end of the pour. I thought that meant that it was spent, so I left it in the tank for 8 minutes instead of my normal 6, and then instead of discarding it outright, I HypoChecked it. And you know what? It came out clean! No precipitate! By the by, when I poured it out of the tank post-fixing into a pitcher to HypoCheck it, there was no more precipitate, although there was a quite beautiful colloid of tiny tiny barely-noticeable particles.

Never having seen this before, but remembering that the Tetenal C41 instructions mentioned that if there's a precipitate in the blix to heat it up gently until it's gone, but also not knowing how much heat Ilford Rapidfix can stand, I took the risk and put the pitcher of fix into a hot water bath (110F) and left it there for a couple of minutes and then stirred it well. Colloid gone.

So now I decide to rinse out the brown plastic bottle that the fixer was in, in case there's more precipitate in it. What comes out? Pure black water! Well, just lots of black powder dissolved in water. It's exactly what I see when I rinse off remjet from Fuji 500T. But I did not process any film with remjet in this fixer.

My questions:
1. WTF?
2. Am I correct in assuming that the fixer is not spent, due to it passing the hypocheck test, and that gently heating it to dissolve the colloid didn't affect it?
3. Seriously, WTF??
4. What was that black precipitate in the bottle?
5. No really. WTF???

gsgary

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2015, 06:14:28 AM »
I get the same but it still works, it goes purple when spent, I also get black in the bottom of the bottle could it be silver ?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 06:16:17 AM by gsgary »

Jack Johnson

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2015, 06:37:00 AM »
I think it might be be silver sulfide:

https://books.google.com/books?id=VTORBjeckrEC&lpg=PA72&ots=_eCHVGvVua&dq=silver%20sulfide%20hypo%20precipitate&pg=PA72#v=onepage&q=silver%20sulfide%20hypo%20precipitate&f=false

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/cis167/cis167.pdf

I get the same in my fixer, whether I'm using straight hypo or Ilford Rapid Fixer.

There's some good info about silver reclamation here:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/corp/environment/kes/pubs/pdfs/j300.pdf

I use the steel wool trick, then dispose of the steel wool with the people who take care of my old batteries.

And, while we're talking about silver, have you seen John Cyr's photos of developer trays?

http://www.johncyrphotography.com/page1/developertrays.html

imagesfrugales

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2015, 06:55:57 AM »
Yep, silver for sure. That's why I only use clear glass bottles, that I can see what fun the molecules have inside.

Looking at Mr. Feiningers tray reveals his Kraut heritage   :D

Jack Johnson

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2015, 07:33:27 AM »
Hey, while Googling for more info on monobaths in general, stumbled across a very fun trick: in-cassette processing!

https://books.google.com/books?id=laB5AgAAQBAJ&pg=PA55#v=onepage&q&f=true

Reinhold, have you tried concocting a caffenol monobath so we can pack some hypo crystals in our luggage and process during our travels? :D

Note to self: do not be the first person to try packing hypo crystals in luggage.

imagesfrugales

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2015, 09:37:35 AM »
Reinhold, have you tried concocting a caffenol monobath so we can pack some hypo crystals in our luggage and process during our travels? :D
Good point, Jack, meet you in jail. But you can still fix with kitchen salt:
http://caffenol.blogspot.de/2012/04/fixer-2-errare-humanum-est.html

Indofunk

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2015, 03:16:51 PM »
Huh. So I guess it's normal? I wonder why I haven't seen the black precipitate before now? Oh well, there's at least one cent down the drain...

jharr

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2015, 03:18:23 PM »
I filter my fixer through a coffee filter when I notice silver floating on top. It seems to last a really long time. I never 'check' it other than to see if my negs are clear.
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Francois

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2015, 03:33:42 PM »
I've got one of those bottles of hypo chek but Nevers use it.
I juste do a clip test using a leader from b&w film (important) ans dix d'or twice thé clearing time.
Francois

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Indofunk

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2015, 03:57:43 PM »
dix d'or twice thé clearing time.

Something about 10 of gold twice tea?

Bryan

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2015, 04:21:58 PM »
I'll have to try the coffee filter, I usually get rid of mine when it gets too much junk in it but before hypo check indicates.  I start to get spots on my negatives which seem to go away with fresh fix.

I may have to experiment with the salt fix and Caffenol, that way I can develop when I'm working on the road without having to smuggle dangerous chemicals through the airport.

jharr

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2015, 04:38:17 PM »
I may have to experiment with the salt fix and Caffenol, that way I can develop when I'm working on the road without having to smuggle dangerous chemicals through the airport.
Can't you just flash your badge at the TSA agent and say something like "Official government samples... Can't break chain of custody." :)
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Bryan

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2015, 04:50:27 PM »
I may have to experiment with the salt fix and Caffenol, that way I can develop when I'm working on the road without having to smuggle dangerous chemicals through the airport.
Can't you just flash your badge at the TSA agent and say something like "Official government samples... Can't break chain of custody." :)

A company I work with was fined $10,000 for improperly shipping samples, not worth the risk.  Plus, I don't have a badge, I'm just a contractor. 

jharr

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2015, 04:59:18 PM »
A company I work with was fined $10,000 for improperly shipping samples, not worth the risk.  Plus, I don't have a badge, I'm just a contractor.

Table salt for sure.
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JoeV

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2015, 05:09:53 PM »
I've been working a lot with paper negatives (and their optical prints) with my Instant Box Camera project, and have found it handy to save pieces of photo paper, from trimming down 8x10 sheets to smaller sizes, and expose them to the sun, so they auto-develop with a pink/purplish hue. Then, I use these slips of paper as a fixer test, similar to using clippings from film leader. If the pink/purple color immediately clears, the fixer is good. If it doesn't immediately clear, it's spent, or nearly so. You can keep a number of these slips of paper on hand as fixer test strips.

I've also noticed white precipitate in my fixer, even from an unused bottle. It does seem to clear after time; it might indeed be temperature related.

And I've had used fixer look pretty nasty, with both white precipitate and black silver specks in solution, and still pass the hypo check test with the liquid drops. So I'm not so sure how accurate it is as a test; or if perhaps the visible appearance of the fixer matter little?

I'll have to try filtering my used fixer and see how that prolongs the bath.

A big thanks to others who've shared their fixer experience.

~Joe

Terry

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2015, 05:30:35 PM »
And especially to Jack for the link to the Kodak document--very informative.

Francois

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2015, 09:36:46 PM »
dix d'or twice thé clearing time.

Something about 10 of gold twice tea?
Stupid autocorrect... I told it Fix for twice the clearing time. For some odd reason (probably slipped finger) it switched to French somewhere down the line...
Francois

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Terry

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2015, 04:15:18 PM »
On the subject of stupid things, I have to say this:  Satish, if you took your foot out of the fixer those strange things would go away...

Indofunk

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2015, 07:17:16 PM »
My foot is only one of many strange things in the fixer...

Terry

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2015, 09:16:41 PM »
No doubt.

Ezzie

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Re: Strange things are afoot in my fixer...
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2015, 08:02:45 AM »
My TMAX fixer is still active after 20-rolls. (1l dilution). But stood for maybe 3-months between roll 19 and 20. I could literally skim the silver from the top of bottle. A very thin foil. I rolled it up into a ball the size of a matchstick head.
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