Author Topic: Curious about Flickr and another question (Read 10192 times)

lauraburlton · « **on:** June 21, 2007, 02:16:21 PM »

I have noticed over the past few months that a few people here have deleted their Flickr accounts and I was wondering if there was a particular reason you did so. Not that it matters, but I was planning on hanging around until i get a "real" website sorted. Also do any of you know of any good sites for promoting and SELLING your work? I almost left flickr ( or was almost kicked off) a few months ago for selling my work there.

Janet_P · « **Reply #1 on:** June 21, 2007, 02:45:50 PM »

Hi Laura,
Not sure about the first part of your question, apart from the fact that it may be that lots of people have just come to the end of paying for a year of the premium service and decided not to continue it. Perhaps there's no way to downgrade to the free service. Just a thought.

Have you looked at selling on Etsy.com? They charge 29c per item posted for sale and then take 3.5% of what you get for it. It's a nice little site that lots of people seem to buy from.

Janet

Susan B. · « **Reply #2 on:** June 21, 2007, 05:39:54 PM »

Hey Laura,

Flickr is a great fun and a terrific resource for many, but it turned out to be quite the headache for me.

I left because I had trouble with people taking my images and assuming them for themselves. Not only were they claiming them for themselves online, but one used it for commercial reasons in print---at 72dpi! Don't get me started on that one...

I have seen people use Etsy and it seems to be a solid option.

Before I got gallery representation I was selling off my pro website. I created a purchase area on the site and used a paypal buy button that made it simple. I also sold several prints via the Center For Fine Art For Photography's Artist Showcase once. The buyer just felt he wanted a gallery rep behind the product, so being on the showcase helped that sale. There are many showcases at different organizations---recently I saw one at the Center for Photographic Art...I think B&W Magazine has one too?

Good luck!!!

astrobeck · « **Reply #3 on:** June 21, 2007, 06:14:36 PM »

Agree with what Susan said about Flickr.

Pirates!

It's no fault of Flickrs, but once I terminated that account, the pirating dropped off considerably.

Etsy seems to be a good place. I see some really cool stuff there.
Best of luck!!!
Your work definitely has potential to sell!

formica · « **Reply #4 on:** June 21, 2007, 06:24:35 PM »

i think some people have left flickr because of the yahoo buyout and a lot of people(myself included) really don't like what yahoo tends to do when they acquire things. then more recently there has been the issue of censorship(always a problem on flickr) - specifically if you live in singapore, germany and some other countries your account is set to safe and you can't view any images that have been marked as anything other than safe. a friend of mine in germany is very unhappy with this policy and wrote me recently saying if she'd known they were going to do this she wouldn't have paid for a two year pro account.

i don't have any advice for where to sell work, though etsy like others have mentioned does seem to be a good option.

william

kucharo · « **Reply #5 on:** June 22, 2007, 01:05:30 AM »

formica is correct about the recent exodus. Not a good situation by any means, but I can't find my way to blaming the Flickr staff. The Yahoo legal team is probably very gun shy, as they've run afoul of local authorities before. However, I don't think they are any worse than any of the other big online companies. Still, they should have handled the whole situation better.

As far as piracy. That does indeed pose a problem, but I can't see how it can be prevented by Flickr. They give you the options to set copyright restrictions but frankly that's unenforceable unless you have legal help. If you have a picture on the internet, someone can download it. The best you can do is restrict the quality of your uploads.

With all that, I think that Flickr still remains the best service for easily getting your photos on the internet and in front of a large audience. I also like DeviantArt. It's a broader art community, incorporating just about any form, but it is really geared to artists. The Lomographics Society site is great if you are into Lomo/Holga, etc.

http://www.deviantart.com
http://www.lomography.com/

lauraburlton · « **Reply #6 on:** June 22, 2007, 02:09:42 PM »

Thanks for the input everyone

I have looked at etsy before but I always get lost in there ( too many wonderful things) but I am thinking about it when I have time to really give it a go. As for piracy and flickr, I dont think that yourimages are less safe on flickr than any other place online really, just more visable for the picking. So its kind of a catch 22 in a way for me. I mean I DO want my stuff to be visible, but then again I dont really want anyone to steal it either...

formica · « **Reply #7 on:** June 22, 2007, 02:29:10 PM »

i was just told about another alternative to flickr:

http://www.ipernity.com/home

it looks to be more than just photography, and the groups option has yet to be realized, but i may jump ship off flickr when my account expires if they don't straighten out this big mess.

william

kucharo · « **Reply #8 on:** June 22, 2007, 03:15:46 PM »

I neglected to mention that DeviantArt has an excellent print system available for a yearly fee.

moominsean · « **Reply #9 on:** June 22, 2007, 03:39:40 PM »

deviant is interesting, but they are sloooooooow. i've had an account forever, and I never use it because it's just a pain to upload. the whole experience is just put together badly and is difficult to muddle through. but i remember when they were just computer graphics desktop wallpapers, so they certainly have come a long way. and there is a lot of neat stuff...even if it leans toward goth cheese (nothing wrong with goth, but how many bleeding lips, angel wings and tattoos can you look at?).
i like flickr, just cuz it's easy and huge. almost too big at this point, and most people wouldn't know a good photo if... well, you know how it is. tons and tons of digital flower, balloon and kid shots. still a fun, accessible site. some people have managed to block downloading of their photos, but i don't know how. you just get the spaceball.gif thing. guess it depends on how serious you are. i've seen my shots all over the web, but always with a link to my flickr site. and i download pics all the time just cuz i like them. i have a bunch of skorj's photos cuz they always disappear from flickr. put them in my little rotating sidebar widget thing on vista. anyplace you put them online without some kind of lock. even then you can still take a screenshot. from experience, many ad agencies aren't very bright about dpi and stuff and are perfectly willing to use low res versions of a photo.
i like trekearth, but haven't used it much. i use polanoid for my polaroids, but i can only upload to so many sites.

kucharo · « **Reply #10 on:** June 22, 2007, 03:46:40 PM »

Yes, you speak the plain truth about the speed of DeviantArt. It's biggest drawback certainly.

lauraburlton · « **Reply #11 on:** June 22, 2007, 08:15:06 PM »

Yea, I dunno about Deviantart, never has really appealed to me for some reason. I like the gothy stuff as much as anyone but i dont like all goth all the time

And i really know it is so much more than that, but for some reason i just never set that up. same with live journal and I am wondering if i really have the need for myspace. I have an account there but i cant be bothered to really use it regularly although I have had people from my distant past discover me there. so that was fun i guess

Francois · « **Reply #12 on:** June 22, 2007, 10:36:49 PM »

Quote from: formica on June 21, 2007, 06:24:35 PM

i think some people have left flickr because of the yahoo buyout

Actually, Yahoo has been the owner of Flickr ever since it was in Beta testing. When they launched the Flickr site, they kept it separate from the main site in case it would fail. But as far as I can remember, I always logged-in to Flickr with my Yahoo ID...

Laura,
A while ago, I accidentally stumbled into what is maybe what you've been looking for.
The site is http://artocracy.org/ and the concept is quite interesting.
They are an on-line gallery which sells Digital Prints... let me explain:
You first submit their team a portfolio, artist statement and CV. The team will review your artwork and either accept you or refuse you access to the site based on this. If you are given the go-ahead, you have a gallery of 10 images given to you. Those images can be anything you wish, it doesn't matter if it's in the portfolio you presented or not. The only strange requirement is that it be posted in PDF format. Once you set-up your page, you decide on the price you want for your art. The gallery only charges a per-sale fee. If you don't sell anything, it doesn't cost you anything. You can change the gallery's content as often as you like.

Now, the sales part is where things get interesting. since they sell Digital Prints, people you buy the work get to download a copy of the PDF you submitted. They are the ones responsible for the printing and framing. For that reason, most of the artwork presented is both low cost and small in format (letter size and under). But nothing prevents you from putting bigger works for sale...

It can be an extremely good way to bring clients to more expensive works on another website (personal site). And if they lack the cash needed for the nicest prints, they can do it themselves at a fraction of the price. It would bring a bit of spare change without any effort from your part.

I know I probably sound like a car salesman... but I truly believe their site fills a much needed segment of the art market.

Take a look... I'd like to see your comments.

moominsean · « **Reply #13 on:** June 23, 2007, 02:57:42 AM »

that artocracy is pretty interesting. wonder how many sales go through in a day. might have to check it out. need to cut down the quality of my flickr shots though, as they are mostly uploaded very large.

Francois · « **Reply #14 on:** June 23, 2007, 03:03:41 PM »

I don't know how many sales they do every day but I see it has a few things going for it:
-Its very democratic.
-Even if they don't sell often, since it's something you don't have to take care of, getting a cheque in the mail when you don't expect it can be a pretty sweet deal.
-The website can be used to get people to know you better and increase the web presence.

And, being frugal, I tend to like anything that is cheap/free

(take advantage of their free artwork download to check things out)

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #15 on:** June 23, 2007, 04:38:26 PM »

Quote from: moominsean on June 22, 2007, 03:39:40 PM

...almost too big at this point, and most people wouldn't know a good photo if... well, you know how it is. tons and tons of digital flower, balloon and kid shots.

Sean, I think that's kind of the point...Flickr ain't a site for artsy fartsies like us. It's a mass market thing. Sure, it can be (and I guess is) many things to many people, but the users who are happiest with it are the ones who use it to upload 'family/holiday/my life via my camera phone to link to my blog' type photos. If you want to use Flickr to store/showcase your art then I think you're barking up the wrong tree. It sort of works, but eventually you run into problems. The tension has come in some cases from the fact that the early adopters were always going to be the nutter photo community (i.e. people like us). We liked it for a while, but then reality set in....right around the time that the rest of the world realised how well designed it was and jumped on board.

Becky P may remember me railing about Flickr a couple of years ago; not because I thought it was bad at was it was, but because it was a sort of 'instant community' for photo people and that felt a bit artificial to me. You didn't have to think anymore, you just joined Flickr, posted some shots, added them to a group and, "Hey I have 50 cool new friends". Not my scene. I'd rather trawl backwaters of places like Filmwasters, toycamera.com (back in the day) and my fave photoblogs and build something more real up in that way. I use Flickr for a range of stuff, but never as a portfolio site or as a way to get more exposure as a photographer. It's only in the last few months that I started adding photos to more than one or two groups, but most of the time I forget.

Let's give Flickr some credit though; the site is amazingly well designed, it's well run and it's fast. Whether I'll continue to use it after my super-cheap early adopter subscription period runs out (2009) is another matter, but it's great for posting photos of my holidays, my family etc. etc.

p.s.
Francois, I certainly didn't always use my Yahoo! id to sign in, but then maybe that's because I didn't have a Yahoo! id until Flickr forced me to earlier this year. When I first joined Flickr it was a separate sign in.

kucharo · « **Reply #16 on:** June 23, 2007, 05:04:23 PM »

Quote

Flickr ain't a site for artsy fartsies like us. It's a mass market thing.

True, but I did find Skorj and then you lot via Flickr. Granted, the small hardcore arty types are nearly blotted out by the weekend warrior crowd but I've still found many fantastic people via Flickr that I may not have via random poking about in the internet undergrowth.

As time goes on Flickr will be further absorbed into Yahoo and the homogenization may eliminate the fringe elements entirely.

beck · « **Reply #17 on:** June 23, 2007, 05:10:26 PM »

Yes, I remember well Ed throwing a hissy and getting his panties all in a bunch....haha...it was more or less somewhere to park our pictures and yack about it...fun times when the "group" was there....but we move on and if the mood fits us...well, there ya go.

I blew Flickr off for no reason at all other than I just did. I had another account lurking in the shadows for some time, even with the old one but that is irrelevant. Flickr has gone through so many changes that it is just hard keeping up...no big deal really. It is what it is. Meeting and seeing like minded folk can be cool and entertaining and its a swell bunch of people who use photography as a means of expression...and profession. It's all good...I go here and there, again, if the mood is there.

DeviantArt has its flaws...and then some...and I've been a non-paying member for two years. Go figure. When I first got there, the toy camera scene was few and far between...and while my work wasn't really received as well as it was by Flickr....it took some time before folks looked at this craft with an open mind and welcomed it. DA is mostly a joint with crafty people who live and breath brushes, stock photos and render an art form that could either be boring as hell...or, as said, crafty. It actually takes a great deal of skill to do that style of work...most just bore me...but some are really fantastic. Since then, tons have purchased toy cameras and celebrate its phenomenon. What...ever.

...as far as selling work, I don't know really. Sorry...

Francois · « **Reply #18 on:** June 23, 2007, 06:21:13 PM »

Quote from: ed.wenn on June 23, 2007, 04:38:26 PM

p.s.
Francois, I certainly didn't always use my Yahoo! id to sign in, but then maybe that's because I didn't have a Yahoo! id until Flickr forced me to earlier this year. When I first joined Flickr it was a separate sign in.

Boy Ed. You're right. I just checked the archive and they were independent in early 2004 (Flickr was created in February) and had already been sold to Yahoo in March 2005! Only independent for one year... That's why I thought it had always been a Yahoo site...

For me, DA is mostly a very slow site (even worse when on dial-up, maybe I should walk to their server with my USB key to save some time

) where I get skins and desktop themes... I wouldn't even think of using it to sell anything... I feel the DA fans are just that. Lookers not buyers.

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #19 on:** June 23, 2007, 10:51:42 PM »

Quote from: kucharo on June 23, 2007, 05:04:23 PM

Quote
Flickr ain't a site for artsy fartsies like us. It's a mass market thing.

True, but I did find Skorj and then you lot via Flickr. Granted, the small hardcore arty types are nearly blotted out by the weekend warrior crowd but I've still found many fantastic people via Flickr that I may not have via random poking about in the internet undergrowth.

Sorry, lack of clarity in that post. I didn't mean there weren't/aren't great art photos at Flickr, just that as a site it was never going to work for the serious fine art photogs who intended to use it as their main home on the web. Whereas it's an amazing site for family/holiday stuff. There's more money to be made by designing something for the mass market. My aunt has a Flickr site. Nuff said....although she may be a fan of Skorj too

moominsean · « **Reply #20 on:** June 24, 2007, 04:11:25 PM »

i guess it depends on how 'serious' one is about photography. flickr doesn't make a very good portfolio site, but i think any photographer can benefit from the exposure. i don't make any money and mostly just do it as a hobby, so i just post everything i like there. and i can't help but think that flickr is the reason i get like 300-400 visitors to my blog for every silly post i make. but as a distinct portfolio to show off the best of your work...there is just too much going on and there are too many distractions. it's a constant stream of jumping from one photo taker to the next, through different groups, etc. I rarely am able to browse through one user's stream for long, unless it's someone i really, really like. but, how can you not want to take advantage of the discovery factor? the sheer volume of users opens you up to so many more possible fans/sales, at least as an introduction to your work and maybe then they will follow a link to your actual portfolio/sales site (and, honestly, i discovered toycamera.com through flickr, which lead me to all of this). and i confess to being a mostly lazy internet user. i like things to be obvious to me at first, then maybe i'll do some more digging. and googling photography isn't any nicer than using flickr, for sure.
as for the whole yahoo thing, i haven't found it has changed much since the switchover. the censorship thing is odd, but it never prevents me from veiwing anything. i've NEVER found a single 'static' shot that ended up being offensive...like, they are always just regular photographs. yet i see 'penis in hand' shots in my all users stream all the time, so it is definitely a broken system. anyway, feeling chatty this morning.

Kelly · « **Reply #21 on:** June 25, 2007, 12:23:41 AM »

Quote from: ed.wenn on June 23, 2007, 10:51:42 PM

Sorry, lack of clarity in that post. I didn't mean there weren't/aren't great art photos at Flickr, just that as a site it was never going to work for the serious fine art photogs who intended to use it as their main home on the web. Whereas it's an amazing site for family/holiday stuff. There's more money to be made by designing something for the mass market. My aunt has a Flickr site. Nuff said....although she may be a fan of Skorj too

I whole-heartedly agree with this!

I'm a fan of flickr, mostly because it has a great networking system, it gives me the opportunity to see those extra photos that people don't upload to their blogs.

I actually also use flickr to store my photos, and link off of the photo to post it on my blog. It's nice and easy for me that way, and then I don't have to worry so much about my bandwidth and storage space, freeing up that space for my real online portfolio.

Skorj · « **Reply #22 on:** June 26, 2007, 10:38:21 AM »

Phew - too much above to comment or refute.

I do however use Fickle (as others have noted arigato) mainly as a medium to progress photography, film-based photography. In posting something, I deliberately try to challenge and confront the white-bread digital masses. My last attempt was a well dessicated, dead cat posted to the Cats, Cats & Kittens group.

I have received questions about cameras, Polaroid, and film types, and in the process have been able to free a few from their megapixel slavery. So, if one person makes a step forward, score one for the filmwaster.

Francois · « **Reply #23 on:** June 26, 2007, 03:18:12 PM »

Quote from: Skorj on June 26, 2007, 10:38:21 AM

My last attempt was a well dessicated, dead cat posted to the Cats, Cats & Kittens group.

And I wonder why

kucharo · « **Reply #24 on:** June 26, 2007, 10:26:36 PM »

I happily count myself as a Flickr derived "Skorj Convert(TM)"

formica · « **Reply #25 on:** June 27, 2007, 04:22:48 PM »

aside from the censorship problems i think flickr can be a very good resource for information. using it to showcase your work to be sold or purely as a portfolio is probably not the greatest idea. though the only time i've ever been published(unpaid) was from someone who knew me from flickr(it was in a stationary newsletter that included toy camera info in it).

flickr was what pushed me to get a scanner, specifically becky pushed me to in some comments she left me. flickr has taught me about redscale, inkjet transfers, and countless cameras. it's also gotten me in contact with some local photographers(as well as forced me to read more chinese than i usually attempt), people i would not have met otherwise. it also exposes the digital masses to film and lofi photography that they may not have seen otherwise. one of my former students bought a holga largely from seeing my and other people's toy camera work(she now has a diana clone, a brownie hawkeye flash, and a few other toy cameras). my sister has just gotten back into film(specifically pinhole cameras) largely from seeing work on flickr. and i know there are others that by seeing work on flickr, they've gone off to explore film photography which i think can only be a good thing. just today i got the following comment on a picture:

Your photos are a great and playful lesson for people like me who use digital cameras.

will this person go off and start using film cameras? maybe, maybe not. but at least he knows it's out there. let's face it., most of the time you have the digital people here, and the film people here. not the mix you get on flickr. it's true there is a lot of crap out there(but the same could be said of galleries or museums) but there are also a lot of gems. for me the strength has been via the groups. i've learned a lot from posts in them(both in the discussions and in the streams).

ok, just felt like i needed to add my 2 cents to the good things in flickr.

william

Kelly · « **Reply #26 on:** June 29, 2007, 01:45:49 AM »

I've actually sold a few prints via flickr, although completely out of surprise.

People have contacted me after seeing something I have on flickr, and asked privately to purchase a print. Hey, not too bad! Most of my sales aren't done this way, but every little bit helps.

I have had people contact me trying to use my prints for free for their commercial purposes. That got a resounding "no" from me. Sorry, but if you're coming from House&Home or whatever, you can afford to pay for my photography. Pfft. Some people.

paxette · « **Reply #27 on:** June 29, 2007, 05:08:41 AM »

Quote from: ed.wenn on June 23, 2007, 04:38:26 PM

railing about Flickr a couple of years ago; not because I thought it was bad at was it was, but because it was a sort of 'instant community' for photo people and that felt a bit artificial to me. You didn't have to think anymore, you just joined Flickr, posted some shots, added them to a group and, "Hey I have 50 cool new friends". Not my scene. I'd rather trawl backwaters of places like Filmwasters, toycamera.com (back in the day) and my fave photoblogs and build something more real up in that way.

Can I use this as my answer as to why I left?

And, Laura when I saw that you were openly advertising I wondered when they''d come down on you for it. Which kinda mystifies me. They're totally cool about a member being asked if their work is for sale (and selling it) but frown upon advertising that you can buy a print? *boggles the mind*

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #28 on:** June 30, 2007, 12:59:18 AM »

Quote from: formica on June 27, 2007, 04:22:48 PM

...it also exposes the digital masses to film and lofi photography that they may not have seen otherwise. one of my former students bought a holga largely from seeing my and other people's toy camera work(she now has a diana clone, a brownie hawkeye flash, and a few other toy cameras). my sister has just gotten back into film(specifically pinhole cameras) largely from seeing work on flickr. and i know there are others that by seeing work on flickr, they've gone off to explore film photography which i think can only be a good thing.

William, a good point, well made. Flickr is used widely by devotees of film cameras so that aspect of it can only be a good thing.

baris · « **Reply #29 on:** July 04, 2007, 09:35:11 PM »

Flickr has made a significant change in my photography. I actually discovered the wonders of toy camera photography thanks to my Flickr contacts, among whom Susan and Becky have always been my heroes :) I left flickr once, right after the advent of the ever so evil and unbearable (to me) "interestingness" thingy and the sight of several people drooling over boring but apparently marketable photos exposed there, and the ridiculous hunger and fight to become "interesting". I came back one year later and things had gone worst, now it's getting more and more difficult not to drown among compulsory comments groups, shiny icons, more explore madness and the over-populated space. The site used to be so cosy and friendly back in 2004.

al · « **Reply #30 on:** July 12, 2007, 03:34:58 PM »

Quote from: baris on July 04, 2007, 09:35:11 PM

it's getting more and more difficult not to drown among compulsory comments groups, shiny icons,

Ha! Yeah that stuff really annoys me. Pointless invites to pointless "award" groups. That "I sniffed out your photo" dog nose one especially! Grrrr!!!!

But I like flickr, it's great for lazy people like me. Sure, I could have a huge stack of bookmarks and go and check on peoples individual blogs all the time, or use a RSS newsreader or whatever, but I'm just too lazy. I like to click on "my contacts photos" and have a good scan through. I like being able to browse through my favourites and see everything there all in one place.

It's a shame when people delete their content on leaving, accounts would revert to "free" status and at least show the last 200 photos.

Tammy · « **Reply #31 on:** July 12, 2007, 09:52:14 PM »

Well, I hit the delete button when I left. $:-\$

I have to say that I left and hit delete because of the largeness of things. I'm really not so good at social situations where the least hint of popularity might be realized. Meaning, that I started to feel like I was wanting to post to get a reaction- which should not be the intent of it. That and I could only get 5 new friends...

I enjoy my personal blog were I can add my own content, and post for my own benefit. I don't want to know how many times my picture has been viewed, how many times it's been favorited, [or not]. That whole thing left me cold.

But, the promising part of flickr when I first participated a few years ago was the meeting of some very fine people- talented artists, photographers, and people that I actually consider my friends. I got a lot of inspiration, some fun projects with the Brownie group, etc. Also those late Saturday nights talking to A. Boot, Beck, Flory. you know it's sort of sad when your Sat nights consist of browsing flickr for friendly chats.

Tammy

Author Topic: Curious about Flickr and another question (Read 10192 times)

astrobeck

Kelly

Kelly

baris